From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Apr 20 10:13:34 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jnd6a-0000ht-Sa for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:13:33 -0700 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.146.183]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jnd6V-0000gv-GN for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:13:32 -0700 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m16so2211869waf.20 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:13:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=+iflIW/g60QOnvBhLkDblwZMerR1fyk+g0xsF3mVVsY=; b=sUyV1gRgukHT+A/Fn21oal8+Gmu0o9JAizkWuM8NEmgMxgQUUX441Yzu/fM08eZVn+oPxv73Vs0ouNsGre1P6QoW0xQtGKYNduBBkTVVZ9ZjROqWZ5s50WMRsOG6xmXyAMl48PdNRwp33ZeyOXeqimTXNsfJ7COSXNrxjxNVXfI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=rXpgHW3OiZpuASGS4J125+wBW6HEVTVCZP48qgIXlQ6lEBBwgBL4KKK1LsPN81fGeAHMivatt1cn3crNS1gQOAgTUDIpLb3HkLl+0YJ7F70tPY+VgnJc44uSQIX517LDe1+yvtAcILzV7YJyMn0nJx8z8KH3iOjSPyN90ZclzRs= Received: by 10.115.61.1 with SMTP id o1mr1966195wak.94.1208711601699; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.136.19 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0804201013l7b5d9c99hc99f575fd6971fda@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:13:21 +0200 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: tense/modal connective In-Reply-To: <925d17560804200928k374be99ep5177a0ae1c79cdf9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0804200837o1ad34e23uafac64b62dec00da@mail.gmail.com> <200804201219.15701.phma@phma.optus.nu> <925d17560804200928k374be99ep5177a0ae1c79cdf9@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 513 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Sunday 20 April 2008 11:37, Vid Sintef wrote: > > > Can a pair of tenses/modals be connected in this way: > > > > > > mi le gusta vizo'a .enai mo'ine'i klama > > > > vizo'a jenai mo'ine'i ma? Do you mean "I went by the restaurant but didn't go > > in", or "I passed by it, but didn't go in, on the way to the restaurant"? > > Does {mo'i ne'i} require actually going in, or just movement inwards? > It would seem that {zo'a} excludes {mo'i ne'i} anyway, as they are > incompatible directions. > > > > mu'o mi'e xorxes Actually, I made the example as a rough paraphrase of a sentence from komfo,amonan's blog: {mi'a kaskla la'o zoi McNally Robinson zoi noi ke'a ckuzai zi'e noi mi pu so'i roi zo'a ke'a cu cadzu gi'e no roi vitke ke'a}. I found the second noi clause a bit wordy. As an exercise then I attempted to shorten it by combining {cadzu} with {vitke} while differentiating the tenses, which led me to the idea of sequencing {zo'a [ke'a]} and {mo'ine'i [ke'a]}. Because {ke'a} is a sumti I thought the connective between the tenses would be ek (which has turned out to be jek). As for {zo'a}, I thought I might as well indicate that the distance was neither {vu} nor {va}, so I added {vi}. mu'o mie tijlan