From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Apr 22 05:52:51 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JoHzO-00026M-8d for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:52:51 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.159]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1JoHzB-00025o-Mr for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:52:50 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so1948753fga.0 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:52:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=AbTrJ4s9PkURDmkwmTI/nZoyIW9VyiigwbCQxlxwXFU=; b=Hia8y5xCyYcd7MWgNMDpG57gP7OdG7Zw9V6z5vliPvGp8Hy/tbglWo2uqtSAZlQ49kAo1i4gDaDm0xtdO0P/YVyArofxBE/HXnZYaFpr/6xtfIO1kQMMnfvtS1O6i/Blk+Pf1ldQ+vhvM4oh77sxtSKAKF4834lVUgHwdlDMW1g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=PInfgjTOEO6F9mQER1Ky/IQjJxaxdrBm55rhrar+L3z7LirmXBADiNqdGNqs+ldB2KYvCUaqz21OD2y5xjB/58csvvaVYrsFaARMAfcmsVjVb8faaoL2xuvCBD6bD3q5YbIn4+fYGvZOEWjXH8wha1KD2dN+fr/C6wohNc3/01o= Received: by 10.86.78.4 with SMTP id a4mr542867fgb.0.1208868746042; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.33.18 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560804220552x1bd0074di62578b252b20188d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:52:26 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zo zu'i In-Reply-To: <8F2B6180-9E5B-41E0-AAE9-1CF58B48C5D0@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <8F2B6180-9E5B-41E0-AAE9-1CF58B48C5D0@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 523 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 4/21/08, Minimiscience wrote: > On Apr 21, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Brett Williams wrote: > > Is "zu'i" the typical thing that fills its sumti place considered across > all situations, or in the particular context given? For instance, does "mi > citka zu'i" mean that I eat something which is typical to be eaten in > general, or something which is typical for me to eat? > > > The Lojban Reference Grammar, §7.7, says that it's the typical value for > that place of the . Based on the example given involving a high rise > during a fire, it seems to mean "typical across all situations," not > per-context. OTOH, the same example says: << the first ``zu'i'' probably means something like ``by the door'', and the second ``zu'i'' probably means something like ``on foot'', those being the typical route and means for leaving a house. >> But "for leaving a house" comes strictly from the context, not from all situations involving the selbri {klama}. In fact "across all situations" seems impossible to apply without some context. What are the typical route or means of going "across all situations"? What are "all situations"? Do we include all situations taking place right now, all that have ever taken place, all that could ever take place, all imaginable situations, only those we know about? So I think the example shows that the context does have to play some restricting role, but the fire comment would also seem to say that more than the immediate context must be considered. So, something in between? mu'o mi'e xorxes