From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri May 16 10:41:33 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jx3vx-0004Cf-FJ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:33 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jx3vr-0004CF-L4 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:33 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so297644ana.61 for ; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=nFzdN9Q6MvzbkCugQ2Xa7CgDgR3NWimGFsRiDM/klcA=; b=CwzKYmZTQFfp8qEZjRqmIIwjKY7OGj/hl3cTTd+ryLMaCeIqha9Ix5cbZQbgKFA68WmklFENwEm7P+iXBp5zj0eyaFReP9nVi4zg0QagwUDW9CUVstChHIsB0AlW+dhmGHt8bKERJJroPBUwRiosBRA71NXCFOUYhvsy1OVSgXI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=j5YvzFVIX6NVr1aFkc8zi9uBhzLMfBrGKpdjiHvQT0RX09xsjJFqDpBx65Y/QW1CZ6JEnWxs+cOck5TL6oqJCwWudjl0vTy0A3qkJcVuh7NarIVGBgfvAUSQHJ66p1pnS32e/o1U7Fch7kRhEQ2VnKfJVOU+xkvhisA4Uim7u9s= Received: by 10.100.232.13 with SMTP id e13mr5013570anh.89.1210959686254; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.134.11 with HTTP; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 10:41:26 -0700 From: "David Cortesi" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] "This land is your land..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21174_27709931.1210959686255" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 560 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: davecortesi@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_21174_27709931.1210959686255 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In translation, the simplest things turn into deep philosophical puzzles... Having spent a whole 40 minutes on it and not got past the first phrase, I would like to present the Woodie Guthrie song (c.f.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land ) as a cooperative translation project for this beginner's list. (I did a search and don't see it at lojban.org) Me, I got stuck on the first two words... Literal: {lo vi tergugde} (and not sure about whether it should be {lo vi...} or {vi lo...} or ... Sloppy poetic: {le vi cesde'u} Let's go with the literal. Obeying the stricture to avoid {du} for "is", { lo vi tergugde cu mintu ...} now, what is "your land"? "land" can be repeated in English because it's one syllable; one wouldn't want to repeat so many Lojban syllables in the same line. This calls for a pro-sumti, maybe {ri pe do}. Or would {ri pe ko} be grammatical? It gives an interesting emphasis that English couldn't say... {ri} couldn't be used for "land" again in line 4 -- but maybe the sumti be repeated in full there. Well, you get the idea. There are seven, 4-line verses given at the above link. No rush. I'd like to see people do just a line or two, and explain the thought process as they go. ------=_Part_21174_27709931.1210959686255 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
In translation, the simplest things turn into deep philosophical puzzles...

Having spent a whole 40 minutes on it and not got past the first phrase, I would like to present the Woodie Guthrie song

(c.f.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land  )

as a cooperative translation project for this beginner's list. (I did a search and don't see it at lojban.org)

Me, I got stuck on the first two words...

Literal: {lo vi tergugde} (and not sure about whether it should be {lo vi...} or {vi lo...} or ...

Sloppy poetic: {le vi cesde'u}

Let's go with the literal. Obeying the stricture to avoid {du} for "is",

{ lo vi tergugde cu mintu ...} now, what is "your land"?

"land" can be repeated in English because it's one syllable; one wouldn't want to repeat so many Lojban syllables in the same line. This calls for a pro-sumti, maybe {ri pe do}. Or would {ri pe ko} be grammatical? It gives an interesting emphasis that English couldn't say...

{ri} couldn't be used for "land" again in line 4 -- but maybe the sumti be repeated in full there.

Well, you get the idea. There are seven, 4-line verses given at the above link.  No rush. I'd like to see people do just a line or two, and explain the thought process as they go.



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