From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri May 16 10:55:58 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 16 May 2008 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jx49u-0004jG-Dw for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:55:58 -0700 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jx49q-0004ir-0p for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:55:58 -0700 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so241739wfg.25 for ; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:55:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=DUsGrw/rRTIyG390C0EFVegAqd8AelfR02aGLPccvA0=; b=EDKtGva6H8d8UgASTles6GwL/gpLqxxhKCP2CRoCkXylBe8B5il1MDrZv/AF8XG3SOZCHBHt7+UmHR44NLQplTdakyxK8m2QWzPSCgLYzONs7CH1HPKoEQ6pHoprXYeBbwC7GBqe8cz69s6UJdVE9cmCM/wD8G8v1h3ESX1O6D8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=WAmFBWA6tN+xsqdvT3O9f7km70xG6cWargOqp6zt5ygFbCjksOtUvwBvVpjOvnrxv47OoxHn8JL3U664Dy1gJCKrItXQo2zeZX2FagqsVIklokrZqwJ8NOtnIUcuUXHpPaP3HgGpT2xLb+jPJqsgYUfUhKsP2sZ8qtoWDXuE998= Received: by 10.142.231.7 with SMTP id d7mr1634190wfh.30.1210960551731; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.178.21 with HTTP; Fri, 16 May 2008 10:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160805161055w20d1c0d1j59cd12ffe95b40c4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 13:55:51 -0400 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "This land is your land..." In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9326_31492356.1210960551720" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: af762dbedc978e2e X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 561 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_9326_31492356.1210960551720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:41 PM, David Cortesi wrote: > > In translation, the simplest things turn into deep philosophical puzzles... > > Having spent a whole 40 minutes on it and not got past the first phrase, I > would like to present the Woodie Guthrie song > > (c.f.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land ) > > as a cooperative translation project for this beginner's list. (I did a > search and don't see it at lojban.org) > > Me, I got stuck on the first two words... > > Literal: {lo vi tergugde} (and not sure about whether it should be {lo > vi...} or {vi lo...} or ... > > Sloppy poetic: {le vi cesde'u} > > Let's go with the literal. Obeying the stricture to avoid {du} for "is", > > { lo vi tergugde cu mintu ...} now, what is "your land"? > > "land" can be repeated in English because it's one syllable; one wouldn't > want to repeat so many Lojban syllables in the same line. This calls for a > pro-sumti, maybe {ri pe do}. Or would {ri pe ko} be grammatical? It gives an > interesting emphasis that English couldn't say... > > {ri} couldn't be used for "land" again in line 4 -- but maybe the sumti be > repeated in full there. > > Well, you get the idea. There are seven, 4-line verses given at the above > link. No rush. I'd like to see people do just a line or two, and explain > the thought process as they go. Off the top of my head, and not thinking about meter, how about starting with: {ti te gugde do} or {ti noi te gugde cu se ponse do} mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_9326_31492356.1210960551720 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:41 PM, David Cortesi <davecortesi@gmail.com> wrote:

In translation, the simplest things turn into deep philosophical puzzles...

Having spent a whole 40 minutes on it and not got past the first phrase, I would like to present the Woodie Guthrie song

(c.f.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land  )

as a cooperative translation project for this beginner's list. (I did a search and don't see it at lojban.org)

Me, I got stuck on the first two words...

Literal: {lo vi tergugde} (and not sure about whether it should be {lo vi...} or {vi lo...} or ...

Sloppy poetic: {le vi cesde'u}

Let's go with the literal. Obeying the stricture to avoid {du} for "is",

{ lo vi tergugde cu mintu ...} now, what is "your land"?

"land" can be repeated in English because it's one syllable; one wouldn't want to repeat so many Lojban syllables in the same line. This calls for a pro-sumti, maybe {ri pe do}. Or would {ri pe ko} be grammatical? It gives an interesting emphasis that English couldn't say...

{ri} couldn't be used for "land" again in line 4 -- but maybe the sumti be repeated in full there.

Well, you get the idea. There are seven, 4-line verses given at the above link.  No rush. I'd like to see people do just a line or two, and explain the thought process as they go.

Off the top of my head, and not thinking about meter, how about starting with:
{ti te gugde do} or
{ti noi te gugde cu se ponse do}

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan
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