From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon May 26 06:36:20 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 26 May 2008 06:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K0cs8-0006oe-J2 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 06:36:20 -0700 Received: from horse.iptelecom.net.ua ([212.9.224.8]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K0cs0-0006Ky-FR for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 26 May 2008 06:36:20 -0700 Received: from h51.248.159.dialup.iptcom.net ([213.159.248.51]:22464 "HELO Cohen2" ident: "SOCKFAULT1" whoson: "yitzik") by horse.iptelecom.net.ua with SMTP id S1228129AbYEZNgJ (INRCPT ); Mon, 26 May 2008 16:36:09 +0300 Message-ID: <19989B49539344FEAECAB833E0C29DC0@Cohen2> From: "Isaac Penzev" To: References: <119C0B344EF0448ABD8F47C56483A7E5@Cohen2> <200805260710.33691.phma@phma.optus.nu> In-Reply-To: <200805260710.33691.phma@phma.optus.nu> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Yitzik asks his first questions Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 16:35:11 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1251"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 X-Spam-Score: -0.4 X-Spam-Score-Int: -3 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 589 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: isaacp@ukr.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners coi ki'e pier. .e timos. .i le redo danfu cu cinri I'd only like to say a few comments. > "lo birje" would work just as well My mother tongue (Russian) lacks articles, therefore I feel sometimes confused with regards to their correct usage, inspite of my 32 years of learning English. Do you mean {lo botpi be *lo* birje}, or a mere {lo birje} instead of the whole phrase? > mi ponse lo cnino karce That's what I would expect. On the other hand, animate objects (persons) aren't usually "owned" (expect of slavery societies zo'o). I understand you versions for "I've got a wife and two children" as occasional. Does it mean we need paraphrases every time when the object of "have" is animate, or there may be some other standard approaches? > lo cukta cu cpana le jubme No. This means "A (certain) book is situated on the table". > da cukta ga'u le jubme That may be better. Although it seems a bit literal, and "above" is not exactly the same as "upon". What about topic-comment approach here, e.g. {lo cukta zo'u ri cpana le jubme}? > .e'a pei mi samkelci ti Is the emotional {pei} obligatory here? la timos. cusku di'e: > .a'o mi sidju do .ui go'i mu'o mi'e .itsik.