From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu May 29 11:12:44 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 29 May 2008 11:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K1mcG-0001yy-16 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 29 May 2008 11:12:44 -0700 Received: from web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.195]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K1mc9-0001XP-R0 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 29 May 2008 11:12:43 -0700 Received: (qmail 86199 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2008 18:12:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=MprmMmhwcFq1GlHOC0P2am24AyDpZlI0xRBIRKQzk8M479h/QEN5D//+BDWdMaNP3sB6tNzcHNaZvu6Ew3gj9kokFVcAJbWO0qiNx/u7APgy2jRa5reknkQYUZBYctNPYXXBymxk/dgy94O24kmdCjcOyHxuq/dHQcdiMpjeZtk=; X-YMail-OSG: awd683wVM1nguZWwWYr5WkznQXwL1Wxvy8e3UjchLEDBqkhqDl9vCsmxGQWw5AkjTI.qIjFcxQw9mtYhXkel0X16Eh8woMOn8UXRTXWFDq63CoFcO4vudDHL9PE- Received: from [99.229.22.193] by web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 May 2008 11:12:30 PDT Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:12:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "What is Lojban" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-588056024-1212084750=:85947" Message-ID: <721414.85947.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 613 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-588056024-1212084750=:85947 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "komfo,amonan" =0ATo: lojban-beginners@lojban.org=0ASent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 = 5:05:25 PM=0ASubject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "What is Lojban"=0A=0AOn Wed, = May 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote:=0A=0A----- = Original Message ----=0AFrom: "komfo,amonan" =0ATo: = lojban-beginners@lojban.org=0ASent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:37:20 AM=0AS= ubject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "What is Lojban"=0A=0AOn Wed, May 28, 2008 a= t 11:12 AM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote:=0A=0ACan anybody help un= ravel the confusion surrounding "What is Lojban"=0AWe appear to have two di= fferent texts under this name.=A0 The first is=0Aa course authored by Bob L= e Chevalier which can be found at=0Ahttp://www.lojban.org/no/publications/d= raft-textbook/lesson01.=0AThis does not seem to be finished, but is superb = nonetheless.=0AThere are in-depth explantions for just about everything, bu= t written in=0Aa way that anybody can understand.=A0 The excercises are gre= at too!=0AQuestion: Why wasn't it completed and why is there no reference t= o=0Ait in the Lojban for Beginners section of the Lojban website:=0Ahttp://= www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DLojban+For+Beginners&bl=A0?=0AThe= "What is Lojban" referred to on the above web page is something quite=0Adi= fferent. This is an introductory booklet written by Nick Nicolas and James = Cowan,=0Acertainly not a course.=0AQuestion: Why was it given the same titl= e?=0A=0AIn brief, that first link is to a text called *not* "What is Lojban= ?", but rather to the "[Old] Draft Textbook". http://www.lojban.org/tiki/ti= ki-index.php?page=3DOld+Draft+Textbook&highlight=3Ddraft%20textbook=0A=A0"W= hat is Lojban?" looks like the title of the opening section.=0A=A0=0AOK, bu= t that still leaves open the question: why wasn't it completed and =0Anot m= ade obviously available to learners?=0A=0AFrom the link: "This is a very ro= ugh draft and contains many omissions and typesetting deficiencies." I woul= d guess this is the answer to the second part of the question. (Can't speak= to the first part.) =0AEvery rough draft has omissions and deficiencies - = that is what a rough draft is all =0Aabout.=A0 Provided its deemed useful, = it gets cleaned up and published.=A0 I still think=0Ait's great and I use i= t.=0AAnyway, given the lack of response to my question (other than yours - = ki'e), =0AI assume the whole matter is lost in the mists of time.=0Amu'o mi= 'e .andrus. --0-588056024-1212084750=:85947 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


----- Original Message ----
From: "komfo,amonan" <komfoamonan@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:05:25 PM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "What is Lojban"

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:35 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: "komfo,amonan" <komfoamonan@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:37:20 AM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "What is Lojban"

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:12 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
Can anybody help unravel the confusion surrounding "What is Lojban"
We appear to have two different texts under this name.  The first is
a course authored by Bob Le Chevalier which can be found at
http://www.lojban.org/no/publications/draft-textbook/lesson01.
This does not seem to be finished, but is superb nonetheless.
There are in-depth explantions for just about everything, but written in
a way that anybody can understand.  The excercises are great too!
Question: Why wasn't it completed and why is there no reference to
it in the Lojban for Beginners section of the Lojban website:
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban+For+Beginners&bl ?
The "What is Lojban" referred to on the above web page is something quite
different. This is an introductory booklet written by Nick Nicolas and James Cowan,
certainly not a course.
Question: Why was it given the same title?

In brief, that first link is to a text called *not* "What is Lojban?", but rather to the "[Old] Draft Textbook". http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Old+Draft+Textbook&highlight=draft%20textbook
 "What is Lojban?" looks like the title of the opening section.
 
OK, but that still leaves open the question: why wasn't it completed and
not made obviously available to learners?

From the link: "This is a very rough draft and contains many omissions and typesetting deficiencies." I would guess this is the answer to the second part of the question. (Can't speak to the first part.)
 
Every rough draft has omissions and deficiencies - that is what a rough draft is all
about.  Provided its deemed useful, it gets cleaned up and published.  I still think
it's great and I use it.
 
Anyway, given the lack of response to my question (other than yours - ki'e),
I assume the whole matter is lost in the mists of time.
 
mu'o mi'e .andrus.
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