From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jun 13 06:37:39 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K79TG-0003q5-MU for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:37:39 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.158]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K79TA-0003pa-Nb for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:37:38 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so2853398fga.0 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=NqsOLgwX5p0Mj3cFaUmFlFXJhM8tYF25aEjWCsKk0ms=; b=n3X+N1R63ipGXSixSw5BIEgSX3BdljNX1RIljiqagQFFphZ5hEQrspaxJluosHwW8y W1xRaYM+SY0TSjcUNLP3h/hDuiUAVpuj+ZQaV2SP/dvkwg7tdWNXEGCm8p3NX1ZWXSci MhbGBU4XGUBSH+9EL3uRox7uuyRv8N4DhGyYI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=pWkYGc1aYPYou1WxaI4tSbLaYlMW54gGxo8g6cCp3oUjtT2HI+ZQaw+sbjJT+4OWK9 ZS2BFAM+sjF56ivAnK+T8X0JttvG4Iw7WfR1gJd1X0pGzGFe6i9Hj57W2Xmm+XGiAkUa 2sHjUNZbvENscawxhqmM+StxFBwxz6PQBnbRc= Received: by 10.86.80.5 with SMTP id d5mr3995846fgb.26.1213364251158; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.89.11 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560806130637p6ebfc695y903ffe3b0d601e9e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:37:30 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ri and .e In-Reply-To: <200806130234.17893.eldrikdo@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200806130234.17893.eldrikdo@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 641 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/12/08, namor wrote: > In: {ko'a e ko'e cu bu'a .i ri cu bu'e}, does {ri} refer to {ko'e} or {ko'a e > ko'e} as a whole? If you had asked about {lo nixli .e lo nanla}, then {ri} would refer to just the boy. But in the case of {ko'a .e ko'e} it's not so clear because CLL says: "Certain sumti are ignored by ``ri''; specifically, most of the other cmavo of KOhA, and the almost-grammatically-equivalent lerfu words of selma'o BY." So presumably {ri} will ignore {ko'e}. I don't know whether it ignores the {ko'a .e ko'e} combination or not. > In the latter's the case, how can you refer to a ko'a or ko'e alone? They are already pronouns, so you would just use them. The more difficult question is how to refer to {lo nixli .e lo nanla} as a whole. Even that can be managed with {lo go'i} in this case. But there are more tricky cases: lo nixli cu penmi lo nanla lo panka .i ba bo ??? klama lo zarci "A girl meets a boy in the park. Then they go to the market." There is nothing to use for "they" here, short of some clumsy stuff like {lo go'i jo'u lo se go'i}. The experimental cmavo {xai} has been proposed for these cases. Here is another hard case: lo nixli .e lo nanla cu lumci vo'a Who washes whom? mu'o mi'e xorxes