From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jun 28 19:10:42 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCmNG-0000al-Ls for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:42 -0700 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.170]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCmND-0000aX-0T for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:42 -0700 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1085134wfg.25 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=IGbD2j7uAdqyctdtU9b7WRufMThf23D+o7j88CIrswc=; b=t9zZzHoCWry80WkEP6kMoHnVRg++EC1YoNZsBqIZWAz4PB32Pe1kivk5/bBr3CZY4+ w/oRqQ7eC9sRvUKbfsHfYo5/7aszfSaQHxltHWi/rq8alvFlXO+T63T1jUff5d0d2ZAv 9L8xAcisSLHDklsV56dZdUYVtezRV66KXBfdE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=fmt5gy/xJpuQJWwI31Ilk1sX4lI1MclxHOTnYhCf2UmECcNC0LBzSxhP1KGXurcugH CRHGoPgUTpNg1OupGMXwN18pKlv5O+ctuACNelkoh83JmFbYX5b+l1bKR4cZPXVDlquo 18q40CtojBsHDvcxlK10BLuWND6LZvo7v/9YA= Received: by 10.142.157.9 with SMTP id f9mr1191473wfe.311.1214705438009; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.50.21 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30806281910q2e8c38e1x1efdd2b8e4ef87ab@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:10:37 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] tanru order MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 655 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners When you have things like {vajni mutce} and {manku mulno}, you're usually going to want to reverse those, right? Here are the examples in question, from Alice ch1. i [...] la alis [...] sezysku lu xu lo'e mlatu cu citka lo'e volratcu i xu lo'e mlatu cu citka lo'e volratcu li'u esu'oroibo lu xu lo'e volratcu cu citka lo'e mlatu li'u iseja'ebo na _vajni mutce_ fa le du'u porsi makau ki'u le nu abu ka'e spuda no le re preti la alis nasai se xrani gi'e zi sanli fi le jamfu gi'e catlu le gapru noi ku'i _manku mulno_ It seems like both of these would be better off reversed, but maybe the second is still correct. But I think the first, since the x1 is filled, is actually incorrect, since the fact is ke not important ke'e, not ke not extreme ke'e. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)