From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 02 16:43:58 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KEBzS-0004NZ-Ct for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:43:58 -0700 Received: from narnia.blumen-schwarz.de ([80.190.195.21]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KEBzM-0004N4-W6 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:43:58 -0700 Received: from n5829.n.pppool.de ([89.50.88.41]) by narnia.blumen-schwarz.de with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KEBz9-000095-CP for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:43:42 +0200 From: namor To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Implications of partly negated, commutative logical connections Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 01:48:09 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200807030148.13022.eldrikdo@gmail.com> X-Spam_score: -4.7 X-Spam_score_int: -46 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: ------------- Start der SpamAssassin Auswertung --------------- Bei Fragen dazu bitte das Forum life.d.cvmx verwenden! Details der Inhaltsanalyse: (-4.7 Punkte, 5.0 benoetigt) -1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Nachricht wurde nur über vertrauenswürdige Rechner weitergeleitet -4.0 BAYES_00 BODY: Spamwahrscheinlichkeit nach Bayes-Test: 0-1% [score: 0.0087] 1.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list ---------------- Ende der SpamAssassin Auswertung ----------------- X-Spam-Score: 1.2 X-Spam-Score-Int: 12 X-Spam-Bar: + X-archive-position: 669 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eldrikdo@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Hi, I'm looking at: {mi nelci do .ijanai do prami mi} -- I like you if you love me. We should be able to swap the structure. So it's: {do prami mi .inaja mi nelci do} -- You love me only if I like you. These two structures - and therefore their translations - should be equal, but this is very very unintuitive to me. The first structure sounds to me as if "your liking me" is a cause for "I like you". The second structure turns cause and effect upside down in my head. Did I make a mistake? If not, how to better translate the structures, so that the mean the same..? How to make clear what is cause and what is effect with logical connections? -- mu'o mi'e namor .i mi to'e djica lonu miptera