From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jul 03 07:54:29 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KEQCb-0004c8-ID for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:54:29 -0700 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KEQCT-0004bc-Hp for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:54:29 -0700 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 18so606159fks.2 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:54:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=XIlMKfUSwQN0n6UNB0FnV5A6cHqWqE6O+oqPbpkVx3w=; b=J1YSQwXzt6zKJurEaBJcyxOQpNQQUh5pF5yG6VO3avy+q1YbKDgLFFIt/EdXAIvY1z +h5K4y0Vi0kPY1mryaNxv9Ji7beBJ7FTueIanMWkCxCVzLx+GcQDnLTYzafq2Gjg+k17 h6CkXKDIOaIyqHdVmUU1BopAi429FJ6hj2eSs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=fwiXXzqxowZrKs3YLRPa8fhuQ63NOo9VZ+watNESItZqcIlURT5pKbwc1Z2Ts455se 0j8QMXO/07N63oTz7gN3R6rxRJI5sMuh0YITCvrKswHl7q5h5GIjXqPhYcFGldbNB2Dm MMSn/WPNZWRSVv9hkbnQ49713bA+tE6wou6EM= Received: by 10.86.57.9 with SMTP id f9mr142224fga.66.1215096859111; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.28.10 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Jul 2008 07:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560807030754v30c4f62ao167c751f5f5b5ae9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 11:54:19 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Implications of partly negated, commutative logical connections In-Reply-To: <200807031555.37662.eldrikdo@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200807030148.13022.eldrikdo@gmail.com> <925d17560807021744w39184ea4ie59d2eb8173f9b3e@mail.gmail.com> <200807031555.37662.eldrikdo@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 672 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 7/3/08, namor wrote: > > If I understand right, > commutative logical connections with one side negated are mainly useful for > observations in which you don't want to make any claims about causality. > {za'a le prenu cu gelki gi'anai citka} > I observe, It is true that the person is happy if it is true that the person > eats > I observe, It is true that the person eats only if it is true that the person > is happy Strictly speaking, it's not even clear that you are talking about more than one occasion or that you are pairing the different eventual eatings or not eatings with simultaneous being happies or not being happies. You could make that more explicit by saying: {za'a roroiku le prenu cu gelki gi'anai citka} "I observe that, on each occasion, it is true that the person is happy if it is true that the person eats" > For instance, > you observe a friend is happy whenever he's with you: > {[za'a] le mi pendo cu gleki .gi'anai kansa mi} > It is true my friend is happy if it is true that he is with me > It is true that my friend is with me only if it is true he is happy > > Maybe the friend a very happy person and always happy, we cannot know and do > not claim this to be true or false. > > Is the view on OR/A connections with one side negated right? You can add {roroiku} for "whenever" to make sure you are understood to be talking about many occasions and not just once. > (ni'oru'e) > Is there a way to weaken a connection to something like: 'not always, but > often/much of the time', the connection is true? {so'aroiku}, {so'eroiku}, {so'iroiku}, ... mu'o mi'e xorxes