From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jul 12 08:41:05 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KHhDd-0001Sl-Ek for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:41:05 -0700 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.158]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KHhDX-0001SK-Vy for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:41:05 -0700 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so1947515ywm.46 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:40:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=/DbixkuwbWVtwLlwiNaCi/Rd1bNQEXHvhNamopAn5XA=; b=LJUaM2sxbCI9YMQn82QDCdsaK9yV2GAI59YEU24JWml6MMX6mUrS/N9W7GG3wU55bu oFCw75W8JLtSnRwVk3XM4tsk5EJxmnr7Dqdr7L6zpnf31ddT0hN/ZaHDYgZbI5t310JR defVOLNEUs0kuMb1wXo/ghisSQNnq6LvAS0Tg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=NgfbxQOEkn/yUBuqZNiAjLUOa/7jacr/H7gY39BnJZOPOf2uN0n4zskUM7265GDw2P /I3l2vMtUYXG8idSPeRRxNY5zkv0abBNFYuwEkCmwWGI31CVrBU/RiJI1C5e5DxTbnvR uuMnLf0deeIxudXWUZF9g1MqZcQKHKZuRSWfM= Received: by 10.150.49.1 with SMTP id w1mr17695529ybw.26.1215877258894; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.50.12 with HTTP; Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:40:58 -0400 From: "Brett Williams" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making is easier than it looks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_34968_9950827.1215877258858" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 680 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_34968_9950827.1215877258858 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Learning all the rafsi and the permissable consonant pairs in order to know how to make lujvo seems like a lot to learn, and it would be if you had to just memorize it. I think it's easy though, if you just learn it through learning lujvo. For instance, if you know the lujvo "lobypli" (lojbo zei pilno, lojbanic user, a user/speaker of Lojban), then you already know two rafsi, "lob" and "pli", and you know that you need a "y" hyphen between b/p. If you know "badgau" (bandu zei gasnu, defense do, defend), then you know another two rafsi, "bad" and "gau", and that you don't need a hyphen between b/g. You already have examples of permissable consonant pairs from all the CVCCV gismu you know-- for instance you know "gismu", so you know that you don't need a hyphen for s/m. In this way I think it's easy to accumulate the knowledge necessary for lujvo making from direct experience with the language, without the need for memorization. You can think back on the model provided by the words that you know, which are reliable guides because of Lojban's regularity. The same is true with the shapes of lujvo. In fact I recommend learning lujvo shapes one at a time. The shape CCVCCV has long been suggested as a simple shape to begin with, because it never requires a hyphen. The same is true of the shape CV'VCCV (as in fu'ivla or gi'uste). The shape CV'Vr/nCV'V (as in ta'irva'u or ro'inre'o) is almost as simple, since it always requires an r-hyphen (or an n-hyphen when the second rafsi starts with r). And don't be afraid of the easiest shape of all, unreduced lujvo: cninyprenu, fukpyvalsi, lojbypilno-- just replace the last vowel of the first gismu with an "y" and you're good to go-- maximally easy for your seltavla to recognize, as well. So be creative! Lojban needs the vocabulary, so take your place in history. Just please mark your creativity with "za'e", so you don't send anyone on a wild goose chase to the dictionary. :) mu'o mi'e .selkik. ------=_Part_34968_9950827.1215877258858 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Learning all the rafsi and the permissable consonant pairs in order to know= how to make lujvo seems like a lot to learn, and it would be if you had to= just memorize it.  I think it's easy though, if you just learn it= through learning lujvo.  For instance, if you know the lujvo "lo= bypli" (lojbo zei pilno, lojbanic user, a user/speaker of Lojban), the= n you already know two rafsi, "lob" and "pli", and you = know that you need a "y" hyphen between b/p.  If you know &q= uot;badgau" (bandu zei gasnu, defense do, defend), then you know anoth= er two rafsi, "bad" and "gau", and that you don't n= eed a hyphen between b/g.  You already have examples of permissable co= nsonant pairs from all the CVCCV gismu you know-- for instance you know &qu= ot;gismu", so you know that you don't need a hyphen for s/m.  = ;In this way I think it's easy to accumulate the knowledge necessary fo= r lujvo making from direct experience with the language, without the need f= or memorization.  You can think back on the model provided by the word= s that you know, which are reliable guides because of Lojban's regulari= ty.
 
The same is true with the shapes of lujvo.  In fact I recomm= end learning lujvo shapes one at a time.  The shape CCVCCV has long be= en suggested as a simple shape to begin with, because it never requires a h= yphen.  The same is true of the shape CV'VCCV (as in fu'ivla o= r gi'uste).  The shape CV'Vr/nCV'V (as in ta'irva'= u or ro'inre'o) is almost as simple, since it always requires an r-= hyphen (or an n-hyphen when the second rafsi starts with r).  And don&= #39;t be afraid of the easiest shape of all, unreduced lujvo: cninyprenu, f= ukpyvalsi, lojbypilno-- just replace the last vowel of the first gismu with= an "y" and you're good to go-- maximally easy for your selta= vla to recognize, as well.
 
So be creative!  Lojban needs the vocabu= lary, so take your place in history. Just please mark your creativity with= "za'e", so you don't send anyone on a wild goose c= hase to the dictionary. :)
 
mu'o mi'e .selkik.

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