From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jul 21 04:05:34 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KKtCw-00027g-2B for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:05:34 -0700 Received: from smtp5.poczta.onet.pl ([213.180.130.32]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KKtCo-000271-Hp for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:05:33 -0700 Received: from smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl ([91.193.87.5]:56487 "EHLO [192.168.2.101]" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by ps5.test.onet.pl with ESMTPA id S184550766AbYGULFSmTSnl convert rfc822-to-quoted-printable (ORCPT ); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:05:18 +0200 Message-ID: <48846D50.1020305@poczta.onet.pl> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:04:48 +0200 From: Mateusz Grotek User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: welcome and question about brivla recognizing References: <4882EF4F.9020509@poczta.onet.pl> <925d17560807201031l25d62a75wcb2c44cc0910863b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560807201031l25d62a75wcb2c44cc0910863b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 688 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: unoduetre@poczta.onet.pl Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Jorge Llambías pisze: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 4:54 AM, Mateusz Grotek > wrote: >> Hello. >> I'm new to lojban, recently started reading CLL, but have some questions >> about brivla recognition from speech stream. >> What is exact algorithm for doing it? I tried to create one, but it looks >> like i have to count letters before stress, what i don't wanna do. Is it >> really needed? (Because of something what is called "tosmabru failure" in >> book). And point 5b) in draft look for me somehow wrong, but maybe it's my >> fault. Could you explain it to me please? > > You can find the (an) algorithm here: > < http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=BPFK%20Section%3A%20PEG%20Morphology%20Algorithm> > > Basically it works as follows: > > (1) If the speech stream that you are considering (from the start up > to the first pause) > contains some non-Lojban phoneme or an impermissibe cluster then it is > a non-Lojban > word. > > (2) Otherwise, if it ends with a consonant, it is a cmevla. > > (3) Otherwise, if it starts with something that could be a cmavo, and > what remains > is a possible word or words, that first part is indeed a cmavo. > (That's for example > what happens with "tosmabru", "to" is a cmavo because "smabru" is a possible > word.) But there is one exception here: if it starts with CVCy and it > is a lujvo, then > CV cannot be a cmavo (so "tosymabru" is not "to sy mabru"). > > (4) Otherwise, unless it is a "slinku'i", it is a brivla. A "slinku'i" > consists of a > consonant followed by a string of rafsi. A slinku'i is also a non-Lojban word. > > Unfortunately, it is not possible to characterize brivla without > recourse to rafsi. > Both the slinku'i rule, and the tosymabru rule make use of rafsi strings. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > Thanks. As I said, i'm new to lojban. I had thought that lojban is something polished etc. but now I see it's more like work in progress. Am i correct? I suppose algorithm for recognizing words in lojban should be simple. If it is not, why use such fancy features like limitation of allowable consonant pair, using consonant pair only in brivla, not in cmavo etc. if it still doesn't help in recognizing what is brivla, and what isn't. It would be completely equal to learning all rafsi and cmavo from dictionary, if i understand what you said. So it'll be the similar problem which other languages have. Please, could you correct me if i'm wrong. As i said i'm new to lojban, and still don't know much of it. Thank you for your help Mateusz Grotek