From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jul 21 06:48:36 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KKvki-0001EP-0q for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:48:36 -0700 Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.44.158]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KKvke-0001EC-6b for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:48:35 -0700 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so196909yxp.46 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:48:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KeGeFkDIBEYGvSIdUle34nNWCXmkGz22ooKUV/JUns0=; b=vXXQ1YhX46d/NvWRXXDDagVMOmsJuqxnkjvF3BFqKySyk+Yg76PPLcJ+90kWeLlENB NTRrQfFyqciLctI65tCe3FLe2uVWCoy5NfplpQLzuq7YmuFDTv6CngnnL73nK6BIseM8 S8z/G1YCJGcYOliqL8Ee70OqVcCnnVPxaIynk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NFOSjzUonfyQTPdfNRtFs+q/T8JlvNTksfIe9SIr+HcpSTplgAA+ldWS3547cnPvDp RM6aymRHSYU0uAQ9BlM2qcdgJ4fkzgGg2qBLegSQm1zghWsvu/9UbOwawxKIDcihAYmh H9TjPmFgOyR2owBi6dLYd/6e6z1iDZs9uLjgk= Received: by 10.150.52.2 with SMTP id z2mr3855555ybz.44.1216648110923; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?96.24.167.105? ( [96.24.167.105]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 33sm2184719yxr.3.2008.07.21.06.48.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:48:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <488493AB.8020408@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:48:27 -0400 From: peter hering User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: modals and references References: <48836991.4090809@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 694 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pjhering@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners i'osai le nu do ciksi cu sidju Brett Williams wrote: > > > On 7/20/08, *peter hering* > wrote: > > jboski finds the following sentence satisfactory: > mi puzi mo'u cu tinju'i le snavei cukta me'e la'o gy confessions > of an economic hitman gy fi'e la djan.perkins. > > Is this the correct use of the modals me'e and fi'e? My intention > is to say that the books title is 'Confessions of an Economic > Hitman' and that the book's author is John Perkins. How do I know > to what me'e and fi'e refer? > > > > > Jboski likes it because it's gendra (grammatically correct), but it's > not quite smudra (meaning correct, saying what you want it to). The > "me'e" and "fi'e" tags are properly formed, but they're tagging the > main bridi, putting new places into "tinju'i". The correct sentence > might be confusing, so first here's an intermediate sentence: > > ti snavei cukta me'e la'o gy Confessions of an Economic Hitman gy fi'e > la djan.perkins. > This is a sound-recording book, with name "Confessions of an Economic > Hitman" and inventor John Perkins. > > In this case the selbri is "snavei cukta", so the new places we've > created for name and inventor are places of "cukta", which makes > sense. Incidentally, "cukta"'s third place, the "fi" place, is > already the author, so you could also use that: "cukta fi la > djan.perkins." > > So now let's take the next step and package those extra > places into a sumti: > > le snavei cukta be me'e la'o gy Confessions of an Economic Hitman gy > bei fi'e la djan.perkins. [be'o] [ku] > A sound recording book with name "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" > and inventor John Perkins. > > The combination of "be" (and "bei" to continue to another place, and > "be'o" is the elidable terminator) with "le" gives us a sumti version > of what "ti" referred to in the previous bridi. Now we can take that > and put it into the main bridi: (I've taken out the "cu", which isn't > wrong but isn't necessary here, and replaced "fi'e" with the more > standard "fi".) > > mi pu zi mo'u tinju'i le snavei cukta be me'e la'o gy Confessions of > an Economic Hitman gy bei fi la djan.perkins. > I just finished listening to a sound recording of a book named > "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins. > > > .a'o do se sidju (I hope you are helped;) > .i .e'o ko la .lojban. sarji (support Lojban!) > > mu'o mi'e .selkik.