From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jul 22 05:22:45 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLGtA-00087t-MG for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:45 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLGt2-00087D-AK for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:44 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so895082fga.0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Idx1jDNSX7MvnLAMAoeooMP3fZ0M+UkjOSWozVEtHb0=; b=QqZFl8u1LIK33K4QEIPlmLMPcWnWKpol+xEoa+qeQxhYKAgHdY7madfX354QsLuxF1 IwyqzlRroHdlFftZ2v2ISFfV+NEdAXSqSFgb79ssa8aEElFPfNmaQNR/yocHIOAGozBB fC+hsXxdywKBAzVXZmpAaXX/u2/dSM2HjeFEE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=ErbaOKOXv/HY7YQUilR6ID6KwTCUfSmkWNpcp88xFX9sVjge9NglXyfrR9RVMAlADX M7HvBioE2hfUN7DwYMH4BaFNqfRa1yKIxwWptKEK5hwHcN/AhUPfxpkLYr48zIX5X8xe I33v8KydwpQNUKUzzTKNdGhE6wCIuH41z4+ws= Received: by 10.86.82.6 with SMTP id f6mr6142128fgb.73.1216729354631; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.28.10 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560807220522q6283b3d9ja3c2719107c3a8b0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:22:34 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ke'a In-Reply-To: <12d58c160807211801y5e0652e5wa868adf6e9b2c80c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0807211642n258bb4d2t9a98c9589c037c60@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211705p6cdd29bcocc5d537a3e91cc3f@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211720o16c7ab0dn7f6a066b0c9486d2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807211731r55d2acbcw2d3a3098f1a0775b@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807211735hb755883rfcdb56e118a0aa7e@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211801y5e0652e5wa868adf6e9b2c80c@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 703 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 7/21/08, komfo,amonan wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Jorge Llambías > wrote: > > > > > lo nanmu poi mi viska lo karce poi ke'a vecnu ke'a > > > The man who I saw the car he sold. > > Hm. I think the English is equivalent to > -- The man who sold the car I saw > which yields the clearer Lojban > -- { lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu lo karce poi mi viska ke'a } OK, but here's a more difficult one: lo nanmu poi mi viska ro lo karce poi ke'a vecnu ke'a The man who I saw all the cars he sold. That's not equivalent to: lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu ro lo karce poi mi viska ke'a The man who sold all the cars I saw. In English, there is a logically equivalent reversed version: The man who sold only those cars I saw. But in Lojban we don't have a restricted quantifier "only", so we don't seem to have that option. mu'o mi'e xorxes