From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jul 22 05:48:13 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLHHo-0001Zk-LQ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:48:13 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.250]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLHHk-0001ZL-5n for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:48:12 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so1480348rvf.46 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:48:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=r3aDXNb8PpeCA/BV6+NsjPJW3kYC2cVzcYX+NtqVmuo=; b=KEfpF509CQ3nITpZ3ed8BHCT9U9/I+6aEVkLOG4BW5otdJSitEmL7QC4xr5KLxwYwL MQcyU/TL/plGunD2ZF0GM80te+CrnNj+2PrkjRiPiZL3+COZMpUbE31lALPFyhr9cbvg GghOSBI3RCBg10qFXTsGETH+rKqnLfiYMamGc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=hh7MqQYLRPkt0oY4uIdSKgiey6BrwU4IfvSfbalYmD29xlrJbG7vYETOk3H3YkkHOv 9kNNXihGqJr2Daxfs35/C+WO3NWW+wZ4j/IGctX6to0jok8SENt+WjaUMImKjlqvlWq5 3qKst9g+ciFSSoeaG40vkKILixPSf5nQhQqrA= Received: by 10.141.82.20 with SMTP id j20mr2502313rvl.234.1216730885318; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.179.16 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96f789a60807220548r3f94b667w5ec9a5a2af89c762@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:48:05 -0400 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ke'a In-Reply-To: <925d17560807220522q6283b3d9ja3c2719107c3a8b0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0807211642n258bb4d2t9a98c9589c037c60@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211705p6cdd29bcocc5d537a3e91cc3f@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211720o16c7ab0dn7f6a066b0c9486d2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807211731r55d2acbcw2d3a3098f1a0775b@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807211735hb755883rfcdb56e118a0aa7e@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211801y5e0652e5wa868adf6e9b2c80c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807220522q6283b3d9ja3c2719107c3a8b0@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 704 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 7/21/08, komfo,amonan wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Jorge Llambías >> wrote: >> > >> > > lo nanmu poi mi viska lo karce poi ke'a vecnu ke'a >> > > The man who I saw the car he sold. >> >> Hm. I think the English is equivalent to >> -- The man who sold the car I saw >> which yields the clearer Lojban >> -- { lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu lo karce poi mi viska ke'a } > > OK, but here's a more difficult one: > > lo nanmu poi mi viska ro lo karce poi ke'a vecnu ke'a > The man who I saw all the cars he sold. > > That's not equivalent to: > > lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu ro lo karce poi mi viska ke'a > The man who sold all the cars I saw. > > In English, there is a logically equivalent reversed version: > > The man who sold only those cars I saw. > > But in Lojban we don't have a restricted quantifier "only", so > we don't seem to have that option. lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu ro lo po'o karce poi mi viska ke'a ? --gejyspa