From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jul 22 08:12:31 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLJXT-0004vm-LJ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:12:31 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KLJXN-0004vQ-Ci for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:12:31 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so883314pyh.30 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:12:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=LC0nmRX2XZH95X1dh/v7O8Zqmun4TOrR9Owgt+zRGgQ=; b=ApXoEQ+VdBMSCj/f5b69SnWlrqZUfcsoRgUb6gIkAFhzWkVorw410e2uPUsfgs5oDC zRstaLNdHT58JXy9ZvQuQq7Csj8by2977BM+fHPeqQFG8cLVmLdYYO4ni/Nr7kOsA8sN rbjPBzRCoqEvjHxndeuJPQDYnL3sJQXFWkQAE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=hzLBuj55nfgsshXGP3r1l85AaKhqpKz9bn3+zuF642E/+OT+uyBlJXsT3G8g5uTdzF 3QlB+QLypUyFPgxbg+3oJ0OTSMGHkOgZu2zz3et4kVu6EBgIPB19qnzWGwYyx5TDeC7U Mzza8BjK4h69BmENhpoqEsiWP1Qeu/GY1umlM= Received: by 10.141.162.9 with SMTP id p9mr3746rvo.199.1216739542066; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.179.16 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <96f789a60807220812o6e1e7e00jf26a0c79d24c85@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:12:22 -0400 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ke'a In-Reply-To: <925d17560807220629m32d0ae9eld1ac1acbc2d3af94@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0807211642n258bb4d2t9a98c9589c037c60@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211705p6cdd29bcocc5d537a3e91cc3f@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211720o16c7ab0dn7f6a066b0c9486d2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807211731r55d2acbcw2d3a3098f1a0775b@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807211735hb755883rfcdb56e118a0aa7e@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160807211801y5e0652e5wa868adf6e9b2c80c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807220522q6283b3d9ja3c2719107c3a8b0@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60807220548r3f94b667w5ec9a5a2af89c762@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560807220629m32d0ae9eld1ac1acbc2d3af94@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 706 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 7/22/08, Michael Turniansky wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Jorge Llambías wrote: >> > >> > lo nanmu poi mi viska ro lo karce poi ke'a vecnu ke'a >> > The man who I saw all the cars he sold. >> > >> > In English, there is a logically equivalent reversed version: >> > >> > The man who sold only those cars I saw. >> > >> > But in Lojban we don't have a restricted quantifier "only", so >> > we don't seem to have that option. >> >> lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu ro lo po'o karce poi mi viska ke'a >> ? > > The "ro" is wrong, because I might have seen some other > car he didn't sell. > > And the po'o says that he didn't sell _anything_ besides > the cars I saw, but what we need to say is that he didn't sell > _any car_ besides the ones I saw. He might have sold other > things. Oh, I thought that's what you wanted. You wanted to say the only cars he sold were those that you saw, but he might not have sold all of those? lo nanmu poi ke'a vecnu lo karce poi po'o mi viska ke'a works fine for that. "The man who sold cars that were (only those) seen by me. --gejyspa