From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jul 31 10:26:40 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KObvD-0005fy-7i for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:40 -0700 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.32]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KObv1-0005fb-MS for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:26:39 -0700 X-Trace: 117599208/mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$F2S-NILDRAM-ACCEPTED/f2s-nildram-customers/62.3.233.118 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.3.233.118 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: mark@antelope.nildram.co.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqQJADOSkUg+A+l2/2dsb2JhbACLWKU5 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.31,287,1215385200"; d="scan'208";a="117599208" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from antelope.gotadsl.co.uk (HELO BEHEMOTH) ([62.3.233.118]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 31 Jul 2008 18:26:16 +0100 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:26:15 +0100 From: Mark X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <901831208.20080731182615@antelope.nildram.co.uk> To: "Matt Arnold" CC: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Hello, and owning things.. In-Reply-To: References: <1601038384.20080731174443@antelope.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 742 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mark@antelope.nildram.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Hello Matt, Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:04:59 PM, you wrote: MA> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:44 PM, Mark MA> wrote: >> Hi Matt, >> >> Thanks for your reply! >> >> I guess what confused me on this was the use of "lo mi karce cu va >> zvati" for "my car is there", in Everyday Lojban Lesson 1. I can't >> see why this is "lo" and not "le" - surely the thing that's over there >> is a particular car of his that he's thinking of. MA> That was before xorlo. xorlo is the proposal to change the meaning of le and lo. ACK! As if I wasn't already confused enough... is Lojban For Beginners pre-xorlo, too? I just looked at the page on using xorlo and it seemed to match what I thought anyway (apart from the "lo mu bakni means there are only five cows is the universe" thing). But that page also emphasised something that I wondered about to - if I say "le melbi ninmu" it means a woman that I'm thinking of, who I think is beautiful (and is a woman!), but potentially no-one else does. Because there is no universally agreed standard of beauty, is it illegal to say "lo melbi ninmu"? I know that melbi can take the "standard of beauty" as an argument but inserting that into "lo melbi ninmu" would require a relative clase (right?) -- Best regards, Mark mailto:mark@antelope.nildram.co.uk