From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Aug 01 07:14:24 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOvOh-0003j7-MM for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:14:24 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.158]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOvOd-0003ik-9X for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:14:23 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so533472fga.0 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:14:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=WqvvrsJSm9iFyC2iPdkI/ovzPpMqzPycJD9nHvQCb14=; b=phtpVVoBCONwhSvK3tWS9Gl9v+qQ7PofcJ26hyDfnzy3lj+l3m6hxpXI1T4asNNtRt qYqAN3pC8B98oDedZeh0rW5+8LsCnp87cuserP6mlk9SPX/wgHWmekBjdeVs1n/LDiNC FnXGbmeoAUlogoapadXBm+sIDIyy7eoAXg1a0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=c6JBCggxLBUiq4cKV/MfGaCEVPb+sBqezLCQoQszCfuRrid8xvHx9Mhp0dX4sqI7E2 8FOPC2BIL4fX8e+l+Qab3MjzF3/F0xDhOog6fTWBTGsqdTBL+mIyGtL25Yy89hjXZSz1 uda5t7tyjsme5pJ1Ez+82Jhaj0YB9e3p0j2dM= Received: by 10.86.33.10 with SMTP id g10mr7340965fgg.29.1217600057747; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.89.11 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 07:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560808010714o318bbc37x1ab1b8747c696183@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:14:17 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lo and le...(oh*sigh*) In-Reply-To: <758156.14453.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <758156.14453.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 754 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/1/08, Tom Gysel wrote: > > How then would you translate: (let's assume i have a pack of 12 dogs and i tell my girlfriend: ) > 3 of the dogs were ill last night > > ci le gerku.... would be the litteral translation > But I KNOW they REALLY are dogs! so.... ci lo gerku? Both are correct. There seems to be a misconception that in any given case, either "lo" is correct or "le" is correct, and the other is wrong. That's not the case. "lo" will almost always be correct, while "le" requires that you have some particular thing or things in mind. ("le" also allows more latitude in the sense that the description might not literally fit, because the definiteness takes the first plane, but it's not a good idea to insist too much on this aspect because then people start getting the idea that "le" means something like "the thing which I describe as but in fact is not really ...", which is quite wrong.) mu'o mi'e xorxes