From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Aug 01 09:23:23 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOxPX-0004hv-EB for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.244]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KOxPT-0004hQ-IF for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:23:23 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so973693rvf.46 for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=RW9fRGAHbIHu/p3OWCAf9aDs93ng8NBb7tHKXaUurPQ=; b=jAIXvGto0buGt6zkowxaI+9NNVK2yFhcnp53I+/2XVIP4xtISJJCWbyrYucBkNN/fV hVDr7YGf5uHYA8m/fGv3EKBjoWkBqNMW6OFlFvPaf6uqUr8GBq4NjmAXcktJLVs18spW R9dbu5uVYzarwYS9Bqxg09xXcQ0x3nQVpbt4E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=W8A2Q5y4lEQjiMt36c0auePEeB1ksibsQ9MGm1rukBt21uoSpJzqD6hx7gM9Tmc4dQ sdX9uMTVWOa1L7BwaYZbywL0jgRHLhVp3BOW8K6L46eXB1E5LJ8DbHlGNUzOZbbvc+dA m67PY/tzUlsCxTBcDQT1r9OjqcsRZgi9PbDwk= Received: by 10.114.74.1 with SMTP id w1mr11828218waa.229.1217607798282; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.115.16.9 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0808010923n30d4acb1n20f5f41bde4989e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 18:23:18 +0200 From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban - really for beginners In-Reply-To: <334458.47381.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560807310533q71a98a67v14d49c575f25f083@mail.gmail.com> <334458.47381.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 761 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Tom Gysel wrote: > That was the problem, in the course I didn't know what the word uacintyn > meant, written or when i spoke it aloud. Language is meant to convey > information, and if people don't give enough of it i don't know what they > mean. I couldn't figure out what uacintyn meant. They should give me the > right syllable to stress, so I'm able to think of washington. "Washington" in French is pronounced without stress. In Japanese, "shing" is stressed (and the whole word is represented in a non-roman writing system). Outside English, "Washington" is indeed rendered in various patterns. Imagine you are a Japanese learner. In its course, you might have the same interpretational problem as in Lojban with the word "ワシントン/Washington" since it is spelled differently and pronounced differently than in English. You may use the English stress pattern for the word and most Japanese speakers would still recognize what it refers to. But, to paraphrase Jorge, it is not necessary for a speaker of Japanese or French etc. to know English and vice versa, in order to be able to interpret their own language. English speakers pronounce the "s" in "Paris", but French speakers don't. English speakers stress "To" in "Tokyo", but Japanese speakers don't. Still the language works in its own right. tijlan