From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 05 10:49:22 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KQQev-0004oG-OR for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:49:22 -0700 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.155]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KQQer-0004o5-UO for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:49:21 -0700 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so1396709fga.0 for ; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:49:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=MqNyW6qZjwe5ChbOvV9Uz52j8uD3dkhC7gDJ6eGoa9E=; b=opI/Qht+543LuOrQT+0pTyPjajXeyusWc08I4+8OEXzd9CFjJKBEUmTmtZ9yjjqemq NYzQLztY5wWFL4LH5lrXh8t4aunHwpVwTDA15YQG9aYddxlaYIIxKOP2HZHCBKku1PJM oW8fFiwWkzLtur33ci00e1/E9hgHmugfU3Tiw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=KIvMDyB6Aujc2RzIU8J46yqj/2KqKCbNWcTz3hBR3B/Fse7zoc8WwOib3WDuVIMHqJ TZNAktlp1ssFiZxTO/mfo168I9Kiuu1UHpnSc9xNnshBKWblCB9T4YE2vAa/tub2fdA5 phypCVLRk+4ggmBk9gU5iY7HmfyA4PVr/Bekk= Received: by 10.86.95.20 with SMTP id s20mr70010fgb.49.1217958554939; Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.89.11 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560808051049q213e673ey90cbdf6a8ab6309a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:49:14 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: pe'u e'osai In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <337112.86176.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 788 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/5/08, Brett Williams wrote: > > The first main difference I can point out to you is both > grammatical and semantic, which is that {pe'u} and {ki'e} > are in selma'o (se cmavo) COI. That means that they not > only change the mood of the sentence, but also *address* > it, usually to someone present. We could say that ki'e and pe'u emphasize the se ckire/te cpedu, (the person being thanked/asked) while i'o and e'o emphasize the te ckire/se cpedu (that which is being thanked/asked for). > I don't really understand {.e'i}, can someone talk more about that? Is it > like "must", "have to"? There are (at least) two schools about this. (It's interesting that "e'i" is the only VV which CLL doesn't offer an example for.) One school puts it more with the "pure emotion indicators" (as CLL calls them) and the other school puts it more with the "propositional attitude indicators". In the first case, it indicates that the speaker feels constrained. In the second, that the speaker imposes a contraint, makes a command. (I favour the propositional attitude interpretation, as it's the one I have found more needed.) mu'o mi'e xorxes