From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 13 19:44:21 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KTSp1-0004UT-VO for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:44:20 -0700 Received: from cpe-071-075-215-096.carolina.res.rr.com ([71.75.215.96] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KTSoy-0004Tq-2D for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:44:19 -0700 Received: from chausie (chausie.ixazon.lan [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE03CD0452 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:44:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: go'i / ri Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:44:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <44788.74123.qm@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200808132244.02206.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 2.2 X-Spam-Score-Int: 22 X-Spam-Bar: ++ X-archive-position: 823 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners One thing that pro-selbri can do that brivla cannot is be modified by "ra'o". Consider these sentences: .i la djan. klama le zdani be vo'a pu le nu la meris. no'a .i la djan. klama le zdani be vo'a pu le nu la meris. no'a ra'o "no'a", in a subordinate clause, stands for the clause containing the subordinate clause; "vo'a" stands for x1 of the clause it's in. So these sentences expand to: .i la djan. klama le zdani be la djan. pu le nu la meris. klama le zdani be la djan. .i la djan. klama le zdani be la djan. pu le nu la meris. klama le zdani be la meris. Or consider two lovers: la rul. cusku lu xu do prami mi? li'u la fip .i la fip. dafsku lu go'i li'u .i la rul. spusku lu go'i ra'o ji'a li'u Rul says, "Do you love me?" to Fip. Fip answers "Yes". Rul replies, "I love you too." "ra'o" doesn't make sense for all pro-selbri. "du" can take it, grammatically, but "du" doesn't have an antecedent. *mi du ra'o da'i do .iseni'ibo mi na gasnu ta mu'omi'e .pier.