From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Sep 26 12:50:46 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KjJKw-0002fw-09 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:46 -0700 Received: from el-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.162.180]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KjJKs-0002fL-Ez for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:45 -0700 Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z25so258820ele.1 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=H1CQVk0x67ZT6PDxuJwaPInOn2A7BoflFn8ZjibceB0=; b=Fn1QiC+eDy3f/R/TkhNf+dDYv92KyQDg2ocEOSfTABpSCSOsGdDhI0HtPrWZbMHSoI XyHYpmOmATo6Ja81JB1Ma9wvrJ7FR30MSokxLu02byWvIhGwu/oK/J9g8iYgggyw7nmI VMIx7pdchfsnYYRS/yRM1nZ3AJnLfE/oxraFU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=lgKodyAzXrFqblbGbjbUTUKLZjJ8QinQbCNNDBUUXd+L+KzQhSvxAHVDjfBhEGDkYt q5A3b126zn4JG8Q9tNU5mxuZOYfwT+Rto9znDCKyCxivHabGgObeHG/5DWbLsKIZF/tD Qm09RqwWVsI3kaJysLYpednqtZET6IXN2C+RM= Received: by 10.90.92.14 with SMTP id p14mr1909119agb.89.1222458640707; Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.82.9 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <95b2fb130809261250v6df05be4l289c6128fd069607@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:50:40 -0500 From: "H. Felton" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Do you agree with this guy? In-Reply-To: <48DCDD76.1020801@scarlet.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <9DE5DB0988ED6C448E606734F5030D381A941274@bbcmbmx01.blackpool.gov.uk> <48DCDD76.1020801@scarlet.be> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 873 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fagricipni@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 9/26/08, Killian De Volder wrote: > I most certainly do not. > I give it's hard to learn in the start. > But for me, the way lojban is constructed feels more natural / close to how > I think, then a natural language. I agree with the idea that Lojban "feels more natural / close to how I think, then a natural language." I don't even think that Lojban is that hard to learn comparatively to a natural language I have seen Lojban criticised as being overly fussy about requiring complex grammar rules (eg, rules about when terminators are required). However, I am a native monoglot English speaker and I find that English is far more intricate and fussy (eg, irregular plurals and verb inflections). The only reason that English's complexities don't bother me more than they do is that I have used English since infancy. Even then, I find that in talking about complex or nuanced topics that I frequently pause to figure out the best phrasing to express the concepts accurately. And I still can't figure how to accurately express "la saras. mo do" in English, even though that is a question that I want to express (with different cmene) on a non-infrequent basis. I usually say "Who is Sarah?", but I usually get an attempt at an identification; eg, The little girl with red hair that you sometimes see around here"; rather than the relationship I am looking for; eg, "my friend's daughter." If I say "How is Sarah related to you?", people assume that I am speaking of family relationships, and still don't give the answer I want in a case like the example above. > > -----Original Message----- > > [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org]On Behalf Of > tijlan > > Sent: 26 September 2008 11:04 > > Is Lojban really more like a computer language than a human language? > > Is it too difficult for us humans to learn? I have half-seriously/half-jokingly described Lojban as cross between a natural language and a computer language, but that well-definedness is a feature not a bug.