From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Nov 11 17:25:11 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L04Tn-0004hh-HY for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:11 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L04Th-0004hN-GL for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:11 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so215797fga.0 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=NlCQ89vl2oNWVX3Z42otRvul33JwHiBj2rrsPr3R8LI=; b=bfaC35ZANko5dYzgB2uYMK+IACgI4qJEyDGaF+pN3knrwJcW0T4PaB6sxs4gSLg5aT T0jaxsgwNaQhiQajapl3bF1U8wwkLPwSrlxi4h6Qb/Di0OWlIIWoK45J+xYI22egLhO3 HYS//XNua6+z40aG6TWl9dsHol68uNktRKdnc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=Ooa9x54S2PhnaZfV+qq/kRyaoVrrmwEMxrO64+tNYUcRL1iVYqOt1uT+bLT7AEML9M GMTMEQ01vno8VAModTHsO9375fR44Ab0nu7SUEpIQXo42fFYbvARyor7SXPNWNYDMD9Q PvrRI2VKiTSdRpABoruvm+dsWQ59znw4qXhSM= Received: by 10.181.60.13 with SMTP id n13mr2691971bkk.39.1226453104006; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.180.217.10 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <64e5cd9c0811111725q2dde5cf5m57383fcbe2341523@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:25:03 -0800 From: "Mike Zink" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: software question In-Reply-To: <737b61f30811111705h48a12fbbh1a197a70c765e0ab@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_135461_30154397.1226453103976" References: <71550650811111530v3febc4a1t30b7f69427cdbde1@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811111631s588c211ds6a248e0a6b63cd69@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30811111705h48a12fbbh1a197a70c765e0ab@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1007 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: zuwiki@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_135461_30154397.1226453103976 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I've used Rosetta Stone for learning both German and a bit of Japanese (3000+ characters to be considered barely literate proved a bit much though :P), so if I understand correctly the idea is to associate words, phrases, and eventually constructs with *concepts* rather than with strict definitions. This is called implicit learning, and there is an article about this on the Lojban wiki: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Implicit+learning&bl=y The software linked to in that article, Parallel 2, uses translated sentences rather than pictures*, which may not be as effective or interesting, but still may serve you better than flashcard applications. However, with only 861 sentences, I don't know how complete or comprehensive it will be. * You might be interested in clixra: http://jbotcan.org/clixra On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Chris Capel wrote: > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 19:00, M CHILDS wrote: > > I feel a little lost/without grounding trying to learn the language from > the > > documents available, and I haven't seen any software that I feel > comfortable > > using. Is there software similar to Rosetta Stone for Lojban? If so, is > it > > free? > > > > If not, where can I offer to create such an application, as I would need > > someone who knows the language well to create the conceptual piece while > I > > can develop the application? > > This query might be a bit more appropriate on the main list. > > The main software being used currently is jboski/jbofi'e for > translation, and Supermemo or other flash card programs for memorizing > vocabulary. I'm not too familiar with Rosetta stone, so I couldn't > tell you how they differ. I'm currently working on an application > similar to jboski, but more Web 2.0ish, and based on Robin Lee > Powell's work on the camxes parser. It will try to offer integrated > parsing and word lookup, and eventually possibly even lessons. It's > called Lojgloss and written in C#. Source is available using Bazaar at > http://pdf23ds.net/bzr. You can google all those others, I'm sure. > > Chris Capel > -- > "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it > like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" > -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) > > > > -- - Mike Zink ------=_Part_135461_30154397.1226453103976 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I've used Rosetta Stone for learning both German and a bit of Japanese (3000+ characters to be considered barely literate proved a bit much though :P), so if I understand correctly the idea is to associate words, phrases, and eventually constructs with concepts rather than with strict definitions. This is called implicit learning, and there is an article about this on the Lojban wiki: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Implicit+learning&bl=y

The software linked to in that article, Parallel 2, uses translated sentences rather than pictures*, which may not be as effective or interesting, but still may serve you better than flashcard applications. However, with only 861 sentences, I don't know how complete or comprehensive it will be.

* You might be interested in clixra: http://jbotcan.org/clixra

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Chris Capel <pdf23ds@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 19:00, M CHILDS <m_chi919@msn.com> wrote:
> I feel a little lost/without grounding trying to learn the language from the
> documents available, and I haven't seen any software that I feel comfortable
> using. Is there software similar to Rosetta Stone for Lojban? If so, is it
> free?
>
> If not, where can I offer to create such an application, as I would need
> someone who knows the language well to create the conceptual piece while I
> can develop the application?

This query might be a bit more appropriate on the main list.

The main software being used currently is jboski/jbofi'e for
translation, and Supermemo or other flash card programs for memorizing
vocabulary. I'm not too familiar with Rosetta stone, so I couldn't
tell you how they differ. I'm currently working on an application
similar to jboski, but more Web 2.0ish, and based on Robin Lee
Powell's work on the camxes parser. It will try to offer integrated
parsing and word lookup, and eventually possibly even lessons. It's
called Lojgloss and written in C#. Source is available using Bazaar at
http://pdf23ds.net/bzr. You can google all those others, I'm sure.

Chris Capel
--
"What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it
like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?"
-- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)






--
- Mike Zink
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