From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 12 08:17:40 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0IPT-00049u-Gl for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:17:39 -0800 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0IPP-00049Z-6l for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:17:39 -0800 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so208768ywm.46 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:17:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=9HobJUrDeND3SZfQDhdUadtq0wjLB6jxLxG+6IEMGW8=; b=JKVOwJwnfgeUfC7490kj1HPc+QEFR9nmBYz4d/kn9O/U+pCGpa3hGpMOMdQcIWwz84 9afbY0IcWa8w/y3L6AWUFaYQLpsSp/Y5KoczYb1RhMhnGfDqPC8dpcpOVneWnFNiBuB5 JGmgtlOHGnR2owXjrmyh0eHQqdhgkpcAFNRdc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=gCohntNEBNvx678/IYF09vTuMG6hE+gD03c04rE+f/cZPakHQONhnsGzk65p4DE2TU c3VZz3/9Ms3r00llkekoUPGLGLk9wqKApiZqZ+Kc5qHUrWFE3JtKM8mKXtVQGJxIAoEe +Xxw4gPP+nA/XIW2bzpn/lJvG57qKA95lhayY= Received: by 10.142.199.16 with SMTP id w16mr3568921wff.4.1226506648414; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:17:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.58.3 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:17:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96f789a60811120817k4285c0e0gfa2c6888aff206f8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:17:28 -0500 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: la/le In-Reply-To: <702226df0811120417j1527af0cxef2b07c159c725f1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <71550650811111530v3febc4a1t30b7f69427cdbde1@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811111631s588c211ds6a248e0a6b63cd69@mail.gmail.com> <200811112253.01102.phma@phma.optus.nu> <702226df0811120417j1527af0cxef2b07c159c725f1@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1017 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Jon Top Hat Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:44 PM, M CHILDS wrote: >> >> I'm still having trouble understanding la and le... so for instance >> >> ninmu is a selbri >> and le would be a sumti >> >> le ninmu >> >> and the structure of ninmu is >> x1 is a woman >> >> so for the distinction between THE and A? >> and why is someone's name x1 = la? >> >> and why are le and la necessary if they are place holders for the object, >> when the selbri describes that object? >> "le" is not a sumti. It is a gadri, (an article), which essentially converts a selbri into a sumti. The sumti is "le ninmu". So you can say "le ninmu cu ninmu". Which means "the woman is a woman". In that sentence "le ninmu" fills the x1 slot of the selbri "ninmu"(is-a-woman) (cu indicates the selbri follows. In certain cases, it may be dropped). There ARE cmavo (small function-words) that act like sumti in and of themselves, such as "ti" (this/here). "ti ninmu"=This is a woman. > > {le cribe} means "the bear", that is, a particular bear that you have in > mind, whether it be the stuffed bear you had as a kid, or the bear that ate > your porridge. This is different from {cribe} in that you are indicating one > particular bear. It can be anything that you, the speaker, would call a > bear, whether it be an actual bear or not. > More precisely, "le cribe" doesn't have to be one bear (that would be "pa cribe"). In can mean any number of bears. > {la cribe} means "Bear", as in something which is named Bear, whether that > be Frank Bear, the author, a large dog named Bear (which, I believe, one of > us has), I do. mi ponse lo gerku no'u la cribe (I have a dog, Bear) --gejyspa