From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 12 13:35:09 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0NMj-0007My-2j for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:35:09 -0800 Received: from yx-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.44.158]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0NMa-0007Ks-Su for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:35:08 -0800 Received: by yx-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 4so301832yxp.46 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:34:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=fZvUWf0I4CTOrYkPRxRMmYt7Qh8QKImJZAOFJy2FKmI=; b=ivnDpdi7CUeO6c4TE2x8eUaiW2hr4k3gG6auJQ7k20OVYgqnoH1FqEH+XZc+q1ROIs 7cFVGllaE31d7Dao8A6fNY1/yHYPfDWfotraVljtOgwF6wW/5lz426VCQKhVk//hpGDw TlMjso6VcLfZR+sx1kWuuJEkXourkwyesLO+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=J0KMDLoG9mac0+BnhK0w0FY/4QU7LFptqd13reTm/wBsP05iDFapmUCQSA9QAoBcAl F7fAUHMXkT7nF7S4/j92kk8MDUM2nCMotoYmI/sTZaBzqeytgiZdmIBMBeiEEMF9/rMA Ce0/Sk8yre8a4cgz6C7o/97F3Eln5u5i9f42c= Received: by 10.142.43.19 with SMTP id q19mr3613823wfq.286.1226525698724; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.174.12 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:34:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <702226df0811121334s44c39b5cl4072fa04d1a81c95@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:34:58 +1800 From: "Jon \"Top Hat\" Jones" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: la/le In-Reply-To: <96f789a60811120817k4285c0e0gfa2c6888aff206f8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23337_22923597.1226525698671" References: <71550650811111530v3febc4a1t30b7f69427cdbde1@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811111631s588c211ds6a248e0a6b63cd69@mail.gmail.com> <200811112253.01102.phma@phma.optus.nu> <702226df0811120417j1527af0cxef2b07c159c725f1@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60811120817k4285c0e0gfa2c6888aff206f8@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.2 X-Spam-Score-Int: 2 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1019 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_23337_22923597.1226525698671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline that was a very interesting way to explain la/le Just trying to help childs understand how articles work. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Jon Top Hat Jones > wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:44 PM, M CHILDS wrote: > >> > >> I'm still having trouble understanding la and le... so for instance > >> > >> ninmu is a selbri > >> and le would be a sumti > >> > >> le ninmu > >> > >> and the structure of ninmu is > >> x1 is a woman > >> > >> so for the distinction between THE and A? > >> and why is someone's name x1 = la? > >> > >> and why are le and la necessary if they are place holders for the > object, > >> when the selbri describes that object? > >> > > "le" is not a sumti. It is a gadri, (an article), which essentially > converts a selbri into a sumti. The sumti is "le ninmu". So you can > say "le ninmu cu ninmu". Which means "the woman is a woman". In that > sentence "le ninmu" fills the x1 slot of the selbri > "ninmu"(is-a-woman) (cu indicates the selbri follows. In certain > cases, it may be dropped). There ARE cmavo (small function-words) > that act like sumti in and of themselves, such as "ti" (this/here). > "ti ninmu"=This is a woman. > > > > > > {le cribe} means "the bear", that is, a particular bear that you have in > > mind, whether it be the stuffed bear you had as a kid, or the bear that > ate > > your porridge. This is different from {cribe} in that you are indicating > one > > particular bear. It can be anything that you, the speaker, would call a > > bear, whether it be an actual bear or not. > > > > More precisely, "le cribe" doesn't have to be one bear (that would > be "pa cribe"). In can mean any number of bears. > I left out that bit for simplicity. > > > {la cribe} means "Bear", as in something which is named Bear, whether > that > > be Frank Bear, the author, a large dog named Bear (which, I believe, one > of > > us has), > > I do. > mi ponse lo gerku no'u la cribe > (I have a dog, Bear) > > --gejyspa > > > > -- mu'o mi'e .topy'at. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu ------=_Part_23337_22923597.1226525698671 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline that was a very interesting way to explain la/le

Just trying to help childs understand how articles work.

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Jon Top Hat Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:44 PM, M CHILDS <m_chi919@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm still having trouble understanding la and le... so for instance
>>
>> ninmu is a selbri
>> and le would be a sumti
>>
>> le ninmu
>>
>> and the structure of ninmu is
>>  x1 is a woman
>>
>> so for the distinction between THE and A?
>> and why is someone's name x1 = la?
>>
>> and why are le and la necessary if they are place holders for the object,
>> when the selbri describes that object?
>>

 "le" is not a sumti.  It is a gadri, (an article), which essentially
converts a selbri into a sumti.  The sumti is "le ninmu".  So you can
say "le ninmu cu ninmu".  Which means "the woman is a woman".  In that
sentence "le ninmu" fills the x1 slot of the selbri
"ninmu"(is-a-woman) (cu indicates the selbri follows.  In certain
cases, it may be dropped).  There ARE cmavo (small function-words)
that act like sumti in and of themselves, such as "ti" (this/here).
"ti ninmu"=This is a woman.


>
> {le cribe} means "the bear", that is, a particular bear that you have in
> mind, whether it be the stuffed bear you had as a kid, or the bear that ate
> your porridge. This is different from {cribe} in that you are indicating one
> particular bear. It can be anything that you, the speaker, would call a
> bear, whether it be an actual bear or not.
>

 More precisely, "le cribe" doesn't have to be one bear (that would
be "pa cribe").  In can mean any number of bears.

I left out that bit for simplicity.
 

> {la cribe} means "Bear", as in something which is named Bear, whether that
> be Frank Bear, the author, a large dog named Bear (which, I believe, one of
> us has),

 I do.
mi ponse lo gerku no'u la cribe
(I have a dog, Bear)

                     --gejyspa






--
mu'o mi'e .topy'at.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
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