From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 12 14:00:42 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0NlR-0008Hx-HK for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:00:42 -0800 Received: from col0-omc4-s18.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.220]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0NlN-0008HB-BL for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:00:41 -0800 Received: from COL102-W82 ([65.55.34.201]) by col0-omc4-s18.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:00:25 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_62fe7076-cd28-4b3e-aed8-fdac1b17386e_" X-Originating-IP: [64.207.34.250] From: M CHILDS To: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: la/le Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:00:25 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <702226df0811121334s44c39b5cl4072fa04d1a81c95@mail.gmail.com> References: <71550650811111530v3febc4a1t30b7f69427cdbde1@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560811111631s588c211ds6a248e0a6b63cd69@mail.gmail.com> <200811112253.01102.phma@phma.optus.nu> <702226df0811120417j1527af0cxef2b07c159c725f1@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60811120817k4285c0e0gfa2c6888aff206f8@mail.gmail.com> <702226df0811121334s44c39b5cl4072fa04d1a81c95@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2008 22:00:25.0454 (UTC) FILETIME=[110CA8E0:01C94512] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1021 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: m_chi919@msn.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --_62fe7076-cd28-4b3e-aed8-fdac1b17386e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M Childs please. --- that was a very interesting way to explain la/le Just trying to help childs understand how articles work. On Thu=2C Nov 13=2C 2008 at 10:17 AM=2C Michael Turniansky wrote: On Wed=2C Nov 12=2C 2008 at 7:17 AM=2C Jon Top Hat Jones wrote: > > > On Wed=2C Nov 12=2C 2008 at 10:44 PM=2C M CHILDS wrote= : >> >> I'm still having trouble understanding la and le... so for instance >> >> ninmu is a selbri >> and le would be a sumti >> >> le ninmu >> >> and the structure of ninmu is >> x1 is a woman >> >> so for the distinction between THE and A? >> and why is someone's name x1 =3D la? >> >> and why are le and la necessary if they are place holders for the object= =2C >> when the selbri describes that object? >> "le" is not a sumti. It is a gadri=2C (an article)=2C which essentially converts a selbri into a sumti. The sumti is "le ninmu". So you can say "le ninmu cu ninmu". Which means "the woman is a woman". In that sentence "le ninmu" fills the x1 slot of the selbri "ninmu"(is-a-woman) (cu indicates the selbri follows. In certain cases=2C it may be dropped). There ARE cmavo (small function-words) that act like sumti in and of themselves=2C such as "ti" (this/here). "ti ninmu"=3DThis is a woman. > > {le cribe} means "the bear"=2C that is=2C a particular bear that you have= in > mind=2C whether it be the stuffed bear you had as a kid=2C or the bear th= at ate > your porridge. This is different from {cribe} in that you are indicating = one > particular bear. It can be anything that you=2C the speaker=2C would call= a > bear=2C whether it be an actual bear or not. > More precisely=2C "le cribe" doesn't have to be one bear (that would be "pa cribe"). In can mean any number of bears. I left out that bit for simplicity. =20 > {la cribe} means "Bear"=2C as in something which is named Bear=2C whether= that > be Frank Bear=2C the author=2C a large dog named Bear (which=2C I believe= =2C one of > us has)=2C I do. mi ponse lo gerku no'u la cribe (I have a dog=2C Bear) --gejyspa --=20 mu'o mi'e .topy'at. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu _________________________________________________________________ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_= 112008= --_62fe7076-cd28-4b3e-aed8-fdac1b17386e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable M Childs please.

---

that was a very interesting way to expla= in la/le

Just trying to help childs understand how articles work.
On Thu=2C Nov 13=2C 2008 at 10:17 AM=2C = Michael Turniansky <=3Bmturniansky@gmail.com>= =3B wrote:
On Wed=2C Nov 12=2C 2008 at 7:17 AM=2C Jon Top Hat Jones = <=3Beyeonus@gmail.com>=3B wrote:
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B On Wed=2C Nov 12=2C 2008 at 10:44 PM=2C M CHILDS <=3Bm_chi919@m= sn.com>=3B wrote:
>=3B>=3B
>=3B>=3B I'm still having trouble understanding la and le... so for ins= tance
>=3B>=3B
>=3B>=3B ninmu is a selbri
>=3B>=3B and le would be a sumti
>=3B>=3B
>=3B>=3B le ninmu
>=3B>=3B
>=3B>=3B and the structure of ninmu is
>=3B>=3B  =3Bx1 is a woman
>=3B>=3B
>=3B>=3B so for the distinction between THE and A?
>=3B>=3B and why is someone's name x1 =3D la?
>=3B>=3B
>=3B>=3B and why are le and la necessary if they are place holders for = the object=2C
>=3B>=3B when the selbri describes that object?
>=3B>=3B

 =3B"le" is not a sumti.  =3BIt is a gadri=2C (an article)= =2C which essentially
converts a selbri into a sumti.  =3BThe sumti is "le ninmu".  =3BSo= you can
say "le ninmu cu ninmu".  =3BWhich means "the woman is a woman".  = =3BIn that
sentence "le ninmu" fills the x1 slot of the selbri
"ninmu"(is-a-woman) (cu indicates the selbri follows.  =3BIn certain cases=2C it may be dropped).  =3BThere ARE cmavo (small function-words)=
that act like sumti in and of themselves=2C such as "ti" (this/here).
"ti ninmu"=3DThis is a woman.


>=3B
>=3B {le cribe} means "the bear"=2C that is=2C a particular bear that you= have in
>=3B mind=2C whether it be the stuffed bear you had as a kid=2C or the be= ar that ate
>=3B your porridge. This is different from {cribe} in that you are indica= ting one
>=3B particular bear. It can be anything that you=2C the speaker=2C would= call a
>=3B bear=2C whether it be an actual bear or not.
>=3B

 =3BMore precisely=2C "le cribe" doesn't have to be one bear (th= at would
be "pa cribe").  =3BIn can mean any number of bears.

I left out that bit fo= r simplicity.
 =3B

>=3B {la cribe} means "Bear"=2C as in something which is named Bear=2C wh= ether that
>=3B be Frank Bear=2C the author=2C a large dog named Bear (which=2C I be= lieve=2C one of
>=3B us has)=2C

 =3BI do.
mi ponse lo gerku no'u la cribe
(I have a dog=2C Bear)

 =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B &n= bsp=3B  =3B  =3B--gejyspa






--
mu'o mi'e .topy'at.
=
.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

Get 5 GB of sto= rage with Windows Live Hotmail. Sign up = today. = --_62fe7076-cd28-4b3e-aed8-fdac1b17386e_--