From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Nov 13 13:37:17 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0jsL-0001I2-1p for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:37:17 -0800 Received: from col0-omc4-s10.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.212]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1L0jsI-0001Hk-6w for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:37:17 -0800 Received: from COL102-W57 ([65.55.34.200]) by col0-omc4-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:37:07 -0800 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_643320a3-0c00-4530-80f4-59d5ff6563c1_" X-Originating-IP: [64.207.34.250] From: M CHILDS To: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: And more le and lo Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:37:07 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <96f789a60811131238w61a54c0k3d79f01eaec10005@mail.gmail.com> References: <702226df0811130806h51c83c15k17acd2c5d2b6c45c@mail.gmail.com> <143833.47569.qm@web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <96f789a60811131238w61a54c0k3d79f01eaec10005@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2008 21:37:07.0097 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9FA1090:01C945D7] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1037 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: m_chi919@msn.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --_643320a3-0c00-4530-80f4-59d5ff6563c1_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about this? I think a tanru would work A dog attacked me. Literally: A living being=2C which sounded and acted like a dog (though i am unsure that it was)=2C ran to me and sank its teeth into my arm Transition: A single living being of the {associated-by-characteristics} cl= ass dog attacked me. Lojban: le gerku danlu cu gunta mi So in lojban: The {dog-like animate being} I have in mind currently=2C atta= cked me And what would 'lo gerku danlu'... mean? Maybe -- A member of a class of dog-like animate beings... but I don't have a specific one in mind? -- ? ---- Then concerning 'a man=2C which is in fact a man=2C reads' Can we also use a tanru for this? le remna nanmu cu tcidu (a humany-type of male reads)? Michael=20 > Date: Thu=2C 13 Nov 2008 15:38:28 -0500 > From: mturniansky@gmail.com > To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org > Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: And more le and lo >=20 > On Thu=2C Nov 13=2C 2008 at 2:16 PM=2C Tom Gysel wr= ote: > > Since 'le' carries the requirement of having a specific thing in mind= =2C and > > 'lo' has to refer to something which really fits the description=2C whi= ch > > gadri (or any other solution) would we use for ' a dog' in the sentence= : ' a > > dog attacked me last night'? (bearing in mind that it was dark and so m= aybe > > it was a dog=2C or a wolf=2C or any other doglike creature.) >=20 > If one were to use the CLL definition=2C then really=2C it should be > "le". Why? Because it is a particular thing you you have in mind=2C > namely=2C "that thing which attacked me". >=20 > That being said=2C I'm surprised to find that no one has yet > short-circuited this whole discussion with reference to xorlo ( > http://www.lojban.org/tiki//tiki-index.php?page=3DHow+to+use+xorlo&bl ). > While not yet officially official=2C it's been accepted unanimously by > the BPFK=2C and is in common use in the lojban community. In short=2C th= e > part of xorlo that is relevant here is that there is no longer any > veridical (truthiness) component to "lo"=2C so that=2C under xorlo "lo" > would be the right word to use in that sentence. >=20 > --gejyspa >=20 >=20 >=20 _________________________________________________________________ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_= 112008= --_643320a3-0c00-4530-80f4-59d5ff6563c1_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about this? I think a tanru would work

A dog attacked me.
Literally: A living being=2C which sounded and acted like a dog (though i am unsure that it was)=2C ran to me and sank its teeth into my arm
Transition: A single living being of the {associated-by-characteristics} cl= ass dog attacked me.
Lojban: le gerku danlu cu gunta mi

So in lojban: The {dog-like animate being} I have in mind currently=2C atta= cked me

And what would 'lo gerku danlu'... mean? Maybe -- A member of a class of dog-like animate beings... but I don't have a specific one in mind? -- ?=


----

Then concerning 'a man=2C which is in fact a man=2C reads'

Can we also use a tanru for this?

le remna nanmu cu tcidu (a humany-type of male reads)?

Michael



>=3B Date: Thu=2C 13 Nov 2008 15:38:28 -0500
&= gt=3B From: mturniansky@gmail.com
>=3B To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org=
>=3B Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: And more le and lo
>=3B >=3B On Thu=2C Nov 13=2C 2008 at 2:16 PM=2C Tom Gysel <=3Bto_mu1975@ya= hoo.com>=3B wrote:
>=3B >=3B Since 'le' carries the requirement of= having a specific thing in mind=2C and
>=3B >=3B 'lo' has to refer = to something which really fits the description=2C which
>=3B >=3B ga= dri (or any other solution) would we use for ' a dog' in the sentence: ' a<= br>>=3B >=3B dog attacked me last night'? (bearing in mind that it was = dark and so maybe
>=3B >=3B it was a dog=2C or a wolf=2C or any othe= r doglike creature.)
>=3B
>=3B If one were to use the CLL defi= nition=2C then really=2C it should be
>=3B "le". Why? Because it is = a particular thing you you have in mind=2C
>=3B namely=2C "that thing = which attacked me".
>=3B
>=3B That being said=2C I'm surprised= to find that no one has yet
>=3B short-circuited this whole discussio= n with reference to xorlo (
>=3B http://www.lojban.org/tiki//tiki-inde= x.php?page=3DHow+to+use+xorlo&=3Bbl ).
>=3B While not yet official= ly official=2C it's been accepted unanimously by
>=3B the BPFK=2C and = is in common use in the lojban community. In short=2C the
>=3B part o= f xorlo that is relevant here is that there is no longer any
>=3B veri= dical (truthiness) component to "lo"=2C so that=2C under xorlo "lo"
>= =3B would be the right word to use in that sentence.
>=3B
>=3B = --gejyspa
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B

Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. Sign up today. = --_643320a3-0c00-4530-80f4-59d5ff6563c1_--