From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 05 14:02:49 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxqSf-0007Wi-A8 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:02:49 -0800 Received: from web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.200.108]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KxqSa-0007W2-P3 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:02:49 -0800 Received: (qmail 45198 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Nov 2008 22:02:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=r55biZ2U1V3fqrD5dKKAOnE6i+CYSBcLeGRPinKb64i2s+49BK36LaSqYCmWfh+F4x5ergVl7d+WxZucschXo8Z3P5z881OWreHlG4obtxQghJyQjipz4CTHN3cjifBPo6s0c0NrznLzPxL6UtrVBfLoOzPfUmsr3aie7vX9Y3o=; X-YMail-OSG: 270_ZZ4VM1kKwtlxYFnYllw3l0g1r6oSt4jxEbwtmEUODYmbEohieUBgUAGZ88HpkmZoI0F7I318cdAbIgm8fCuC5m2M5MNcHBNZvCTeWIgBpL52ILlA8lvoec5kdKN6fsKA Received: from [84.195.62.156] by web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:02:37 PST Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gysel Subject: [lojban-beginners] lo and le To: lojban MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1330446466-1225922557=:45075" Message-ID: <166004.45075.qm@web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 990 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: to_mu1975@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-1330446466-1225922557=:45075 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 'Le' = 'one or more specific things which i describe as' 'lo' = 'one or more of all the things which really are' So 'lo' and 'le' both have two properties: 1.they are either specific or non-specific, and 2. they are naming something which either is actually what you name it , or you're not sure that it really is what you name it. So we can combine these properties into 4 possible options: 1. The most vague. We're not talking about a specific thing, AND we're not sure it really is what we named it. (but it looked that way, that's why we're describing it as as such). 2. We're talking about a specific thing, AND not sure if it really is a what we name it. Corresponds to the Lojban gadri ' le '. 3. We're talking about a non-specific thing, AND are sure it is what we name it. Corresponds to the gadri ' lo '. 4. The most sure and clear. We're talking about a specific thing AND are really sure it's what we name it. So 'le' adds more clarity to the vagueness, as does 'lo'. The fourth option does even more so, but why is there no gadri for that in lojban? (I guess in english this would be the article 'the') How would you translate something like that into lojban? Or maybe I'm missing something? Any ideas? Thank you, Tom. --0-1330446466-1225922557=:45075 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
'Le' = 'one or more specific things which i describe as'
'lo' = 'one or more of all the things which really are'

So 'lo' and 'le' both have two properties: 1.they are either specific or non-specific, and 2. they are naming something which either is actually what you name it , or you're not sure that it really is what you name it.

So we can combine these properties into 4 possible options:

1. The most vague. We're not talking about a specific thing, AND we're not sure it really is what we named it. (but it looked that way, that's why we're describing it as as such).

2. We're talking about a specific thing, AND not sure if it really is a what we name it. Corresponds to the Lojban gadri ' le '.

3. We're talking about a non-specific thing, AND are sure it is what we name it. Corresponds to the gadri ' lo '.

4. The most sure and clear. We're talking about a specific thing AND are really sure it's what we name it.



So 'le' adds more clarity to the vagueness, as does 'lo'.

The fourth option does even more so, but why is there no gadri for that in lojban? (I guess in english this would be the article 'the')
How would you translate something like that into lojban?
Or maybe I'm missing something?


Any ideas?
Thank you,
Tom.

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