From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 12 13:40:01 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:40:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LBFjr-0000Bp-AY for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:40:01 -0800 Received: from web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.200.109]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LBFjl-0000Aa-Lh for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:39:59 -0800 Received: (qmail 2479 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Dec 2008 21:39:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=D08ISqT5kNy0Wq7zk0Yi06oYvOIN7gCS+LKedNbBtxM7MYRKn1tYQPSiPE5Hy8zknp7wffvyyLdI7IT1VJj49CGg5fb+0bT4cM3PzEztr0TD5obcquj7uOoCtzZNbzlvui2i43m5ytR3mXJjzLSotCs1XQmTMRaQX8/R37zTF+o=; X-YMail-OSG: 1zg6VIIVM1ka0_JeshGFELDUeLPoUcEOnlcT68Vcbr1.7z0cMduosTCJTNN1fznee2e4H4xUsyehBBvHNLT.PTmfpUR5YQUNBXDu_5iI0i9Jdt1BJAaRHALyCbeU0pL2SvbBtoKI8rLHrKq559goqYbqsAi.UtDOLZ35gnR6boEvMN6NaQu6NieR187p Received: from [84.195.60.251] by web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:39:46 PST Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:39:46 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gysel Subject: [lojban-beginners] Berenstain B and AIW To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1252428399-1229117986=:2248" Message-ID: <269372.2248.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1091 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: to_mu1975@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-1252428399-1229117986=:2248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanx andrus, "I have gone through both with the authors word-by-word,"=20 Was that on this list? If so, can somone point these out the berenstain bea= rs threads in the lojban archive? I've only been able to find: http://www.l= ojban.org/tiki/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=3D5761&topics_o= ffset=3D77&topics_sort_mode=3Dtitle_desc&forumId=3D1&fullscreen=3Dn&display= =3Dprint And is "Alice in Wonderland" also reviewed and revised? Is there some sort = of archive of this?=20 A shame about the prophet, because it's a beautiful text. But I 'll go for = ease of learning at this stage. Thank you,=20 Tom. --- On Fri, 11/28/08, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: From: A. PIEKARSKI Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: cmavo To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:34 PM Tom, This is advice from another newbie.=A0 If you want to read through The Prop= het, and by asking questions learn and in the process help to improve it - just=20 carry on. If at this stage, you want to read through texts that have already been reviewed=20 and revised, try The Berenstain Bears and the Little Prince.=A0 I have gone through=20 both with the authors word-by-word, so probably most of their mistakes have been=20 worked out. mu'o mi'e andrus ----- Original Message ---- > From: Minimiscience > To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:31:22 PM > Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: cmavo >=20 > de'i li 28 pi'e 11 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. Tom Gysel .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > > e.g.: could someone help me with: > > .i ko'a pu denpa le sexruti bloti le tcadu le pu'u bevri ko'a le daplu > > i don't understand the structure of this sentence.=20 > > shouldn't there be a 'be' in front of 'tcadu'? > > confused with sumti places > .skamyxatra >=20 > Putting a "{be}" in front of "{le tcadu}" (in front of "{tcadu}" would just be > wrong) would cause it to attach to "{le se xruti bloti}", creating a phrase > that translates as "the returned boat for carrying the town," which, I suspect, > is not what is meant.=A0 Instead, "{le tcadu}" fills the x3 place of "{denpa}", > making it the state that "{ko'a}" is in while waiting for "{le se xruti > bloti}."=A0 However, this is an improper use of the place structure, as a town is > not a state of being, and a boat is not an event (which the x2 place of > "{denpa}" is required to be).=A0 Assuming that the sentence is meant to be "He > waited at the town for the return of the boat before carrying himself to the > island," or something along those lines, it should be rewritten as "{ko'a pu > denpa vi le tcadu lonu le bloti cu se xruti kei le pu'u bevri ko'a le daplu}." > Mistakes like these are a good reason not to study works whose translations > have been abandoned. >=20 > mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy. >=20 > --=20 > do ganai ka'e tcidu dei gi djuno lo dukse =0A=0A=0A --0-1252428399-1229117986=:2248 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
thanx andrus,

"I have gone through both with the authors word-by-word,"
Was that on this list? If so, can somone point these out the berenstain bears threads in the lojban archive? I've only been able to find: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?comments_parentId=5761&topics_offset=77&topics_sort_mode=title_desc&forumId=1&fullscreen=n&display=print

And is "Alice in Wonderland" also reviewed and revised? Is there some sort of archive of this?

A shame about the prophet, because it's a beautiful text. But I 'll go for ease of learning at this stage.

Thank you,
Tom.

--- On Fri, 11/28/08, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
From: A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: cmavo
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:34 PM

Tom,

This is advice from another newbie.  If you want to read through The Prophet,
and by asking questions
 learn and in the process help to improve it - just 
carry on.

If at this stage, you want to read through texts that have already been
reviewed 
and revised, try The Berenstain Bears and the Little Prince.  I have gone
through 
both with the authors word-by-word, so probably most of their mistakes have
been 
worked out.

mu'o mi'e andrus



----- Original Message ----
> From: Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>
>
 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
> Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:31:22 PM
> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: cmavo
> 
> de'i li 28 pi'e 11 pi'e 2008 la'o fy. Tom Gysel .fy. cusku
zoi skamyxatra.
> > e.g.: could someone help me with:
> > .i ko'a pu denpa le sexruti bloti le tcadu le pu'u bevri
ko'a le daplu
> > i don't understand the structure of this sentence. 
> > shouldn't there be a 'be' in front of
 'tcadu'?
> > confused with sumti places
> .skamyxatra
> 
> Putting a "{be}" in front of "{le tcadu}" (in front of
"{tcadu}" would just be
> wrong) would cause it to attach to "{le se xruti bloti}",
creating a phrase
> that translates as "the returned boat for carrying the town,"
which, I suspect,
> is not what is meant.  Instead, "{le tcadu}" fills the x3 place
of "{denpa}",
> making it the state that "{ko'a}" is in
 while waiting for
"{le se xruti
> bloti}."  However, this is an improper use of the place structure,
as a town is
> not a state of being, and a boat is not an event (which the x2 place of
> "{denpa}" is required to be).  Assuming that the sentence is
meant to be "He
> waited at the town for the return of the boat before carrying himself to
the
> island," or something along those lines, it should be rewritten as
"{ko'a
 pu
> denpa vi le tcadu lonu le bloti cu se xruti kei le pu'u bevri ko'a
le daplu}."
> Mistakes like these are a good reason not to study works whose
translations
> have been abandoned.
> 
> mu'omi'e la'o gy. Minimiscience .gy.
> 
> -- 
> do ganai ka'e tcidu dei gi djuno lo dukse





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