From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jan 02 10:01:00 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:01:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LIoKS-0007do-Rk for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:01:00 -0800 Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com ([209.85.200.174]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LIoKQ-0007dF-02 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:01:00 -0800 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so6915524wfa.25 for ; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:00:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=FdP48Hes8qgYWhwiUjCMwc1j6fVmRRS0f4KZehb2zmA=; b=v2PrYypPrKRAYdctXMWuJyNtS3AYlY9Xmr1YxNzPQfnQy5lGc9i1WyhHXDRKif7cGA BpcGEF9SCWVsgMQ+z6OCXfh06/tHrOUFtZ4KyTnyGx5YfCXywEjXK8/fPB4KcVG/mH9B hqE9gveiv/A9guAGBHoO12+F/b8QE2hHBvYgI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=xpmZxH9q7YMyghMcczpYcBvmbS+qcKJW4JAhjh1Ym6x4dOU9QrmBIOZTI714wgjo4C Ai3ggvVmNJ6nCrRCnWrOYeTbxbiDKNrRyy22SU0GXSCF4t10m8gqTplm1VIvCJxLrvqS 5YjoWhBjLkXMCGKqP/m6Ry8xHngi4fBd/4FIg= Received: by 10.142.252.13 with SMTP id z13mr7402439wfh.252.1230919256865; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.100.10 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:00:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96f789a60901021000pee29896m1a9d8c4a92918cd7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:00:56 -0500 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: fa fe fi se te... In-Reply-To: <5715b9300901020811l2f68cb0bka08ef53717326ddd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_134428_21990628.1230919256860" References: <5715b9300901020747s28c0d177ib421215aac0afcae@mail.gmail.com> <495E3A20.2070000@perpetuum-immobile.de> <5715b9300901020811l2f68cb0bka08ef53717326ddd@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1140 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_134428_21990628.1230919256860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > ok, so the se type words modify the selbri before the fa type words have > any effect on the sumti. So "mi se tavla fi do lo cukta lo lojban" = "do > tavla fi mi do lo cukta lo lojban" = "you are talked to by someone about me > in language book ". xu > mi drani > > - Luke Bergen > Let me clarify two points. First, since "lo cukta" is occupying the place of "language of discourse", it has a meaning. It would mean a bookish language. It might mean, for example, depending on context, that someone was talking about you in a language that was ordinarily used in books (a "scholarly tongue", if you will), or perhaps in the same language as the books you have just been talking about with the subject of this sentence. Second, while "*lo lojban" (as pointed out, either "la lojban" or "lo lojbo" would be correct) fits into the non-defined x5 place, that doesn't make it a "parse error". It is grammatical. It simply is a place that's not defined by the dictionary, so would have to be gleaned by context (if you've gotten that far, it's equivalent to "do'e la lojban".). So it would mean "You are talked to about me in a book language, in some way related to lojban" Context would have to be used to understand the last part. Since the speaker didn't explicitly put that in the x3 or x4 place in addition to what's already in those slots, it probably does NOT mean that the bookish language is lojban, nor that the subject was lojban. Perhaps it means they were talking on a lojban mailing list..... --gejyspa ------=_Part_134428_21990628.1230919256860 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
ok, so the se type words modify the selbri before the fa type words have any effect on the sumti.  So "mi se tavla fi do lo cukta lo lojban" = "do tavla fi mi do lo cukta lo lojban" = "you are talked to by someone about me in language book <no space left to deal with lo lojban so parse error>".  xu mi drani

- Luke Bergen

  Let me clarify two points.   First, since "lo cukta" is occupying the place of "language of discourse", it has a meaning.  It would mean a bookish language.  It might mean, for example, depending on context, that someone was talking about you in a language that was ordinarily used in books (a "scholarly tongue", if you will), or perhaps in the same language as the books you have just been talking about with the subject of this sentence.

  Second, while "*lo lojban" (as pointed out, either "la lojban" or "lo lojbo" would be correct) fits into the non-defined x5 place, that doesn't make it a "parse error".  It is grammatical.  It simply is a place that's not defined by the dictionary, so would have to be gleaned by context (if you've gotten that far, it's equivalent to "do'e la lojban".).  So it would mean "You are talked to about me in a book language, in some way related to lojban"  Context would have to be used to understand the last part.  Since the speaker didn't explicitly put that in the x3 or x4 place in addition to what's already in those slots, it probably does NOT mean that the bookish language is lojban, nor that the subject was lojban.  Perhaps it means they were talking on a lojban mailing list.....

              --gejyspa


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