From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jan 13 06:46:10 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LMkWw-0003uU-8O for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:46:10 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LMkWo-0003t6-W5 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:46:10 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b17so33864rvf.46 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:46:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=LDSyj8VkWYUav9Tdl+f8xueAp0knEyWpxIjvCJuXvCc=; b=rAyFtUELywFTHCNu3Gq4zO9aAl2DATMQUwW/S1I6E4fEaOmv3DhmhHjjkhbMtyUjt5 nCyBfB+7HrdpoTH06BMtkj0AXMyPN3bgLQ7aVhiXbnSmxpPfa2a71qnXrUpPHVWvGAdP Qiq5Qh8RhGTgefv9czvZRWftOn1VmFA+oy6uM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=m76MYDG2mUQ8Ja5vAFwkmBCcf+Rsd+dvyMvvEYQUBXaCbB4+gmbe45le1zMvQiQRac UQMOREuxfwbjqZWvbbY9mAiqQcFIl0FQpdaU9D6O8jpytj36AdTu6cMjfddluwweO8Y/ RV5VkDemnoyfQqkfXkxGPnC/mUPw+zI02dfA8= Received: by 10.141.175.5 with SMTP id c5mr15312085rvp.243.1231857961816; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.194.15 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:46:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560901130646i759315bes25c0660191f6a58a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:46:01 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: xelfanva In-Reply-To: <20090113001704.GA13721@sdf.lonestar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20090113001704.GA13721@sdf.lonestar.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1172 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Minimiscience wrote: > > "All Lojban is divided into three parts [i.e., three types of words]." > - piro la lojban. selterfendi lo cimei > - I'm not clear on whether the x3 of "{fendi}" is a mass, a quantity of > individuals, or a set; should a "{se}" or "{te}" be inserted before > "{cimei}"? I'm not sure "fendi" is the best choice here. Who divides it? What are the partitions? (And in any case, Lojban is not just a collection of words, so saying that all of it is divided into just three parts sounds wrong.) Maybe: ci da klesi lo lojbo valsi (lo ka tarmi) There are exactly three kinds of Lojban words (by morphology) lo lojbo valsi klesi cu ci mei Lojban word classes are three. although those might be too much of a distortion of your original. > "The most essential right of man is the right to question." > - lo traji jicmu selzi'e be loi remna du lo selzi'e po'u lonu senpi Needs {cu}. More concise: lo traji jicmu selzi'e be lo remna cu nu senpi > "If gods do evil then they are not gods. -- Euripides" > - lo cevni ganai pacyzu'e gi na'e cevni vau cu'u sa'a la .iuripydeis. I don't think you want to add a common argument with {cu'u} here. That expands to: lo cevni goi ko'a la .iuripydeis. goi ko'e zo'u ganai ko'a pacyzu'e cu'u sa'a ko'e gi ko'a na'e cevni cu'u sa'a ko'e which is not right. I think you need {sei [sa'a] la .iuripides. cu cusku}. > "What can happen once can happen again." > - lo paroi se kakne cu rere'u se kakne > OR > - lo ka'e fasnu cu ka'e selkrefu > - I'm more confident about the accuracy of the latter, but I'd prefer the > former, as it's closer to the English wording. lo se kakne is something that can be done, not just something that can happen. You could say: lo ka'e se krefu be fi li pa cu ka'e se krefu (be) fi li za'u > "It's not that I'm lazy; it's that I just don't care." > - na'e du'u mi lazni .i du'u mi na'e selra'u sa'u Not sure what those "du'u" do. Maybe: naku mi lazni .i ja'aku sa'u mi na'e selra'u (or "mi na'e se vajni" to make it sound more catchy) > "This must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays." > - li'a .e'i ca vondei .i mi na'e pu'i kufra loi vondei I think this is an epistemic "must". Maybe "ju'o" or "ru'a". I don't think ".e'i" works here. Not sure what "na'e pu'i" means. Maybe I'd say something like "mi no roi pu snada lo nu kufra lo vondei". > "Reason #10DF1 to learn Lojban: No one speaks English anymore." > - lo panojauvaipa moi krinu be lonu cilre fi la lojban. zo'u > noda ca'o se bangu la gliban. > - I'm really not sure about my choice of "{ca'o}" to approximate "anymore." I would use "za'o". > "The rules don't change, just the inputs." > - genai loi pruce gi po'o loi se pruce cu cenba > - I don't suppose there's a way to approximate the English word order? Not sure why you translate "rules" as "pruce". Maybe the idea is something like: lo pruce cu cenba genai lo ka makau javni ke'a gi po'o lo ka makau se pruce ke'a which ends up shortened to: lo javni na .e po'o lo se pruce cu cenba > "With Math, all things are possible." > - fi'o kansa la cmaci ro da cumki "fi'o kansa" or "se pi'o"? > "There's more than one way to do it." > Naturally, there's more than one way to translate this: > - za'u tadji cu zasti > - za'u da tadji > - zmatadji > Which do you think is best and/or most Perl-like? za'u da tadji mu'o mi'e xorxes