From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 15 10:43:54 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNXC5-0005e8-7C for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:43:54 -0800 Received: from yw-out-1718.google.com ([74.125.46.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNXC2-0005du-Qy for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:43:53 -0800 Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 5so515536ywm.46 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:43:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=BYALhI68uAWPrfVJNA0C1fUqlPcz0O7Cng7KrBzw+TI=; b=ERleBJE0SgNxuzKvx97FJguZWLNL069fGiYy6rXC5sQIit1URdru54ihyEeZLG+8r7 B/Y46zt9nMezc5jSCtibJuxA5udpheCKPS4XZwcwv+0lzSKdhT0/D9VSOH4QHf/lbEqH ptZQYcOrVOanhRNbsxcXIft/TLCrwgtNY8t6g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=S63TlU1zy9DznN6luiS35h9b6nQuF727OL8D+Qos5S1S2ifMGSIe8TncGXcCccEthY d+EpCNNM4V3qz0KGCBzCBbtwFCQAHmhP4YQDDoJx3HESDPKR9+xcDmWFgCSXVtoP7oRl 9YDtqdytlQTICSvcjdVmNkPVwm5jbvprYbYGA= Received: by 10.142.108.2 with SMTP id g2mr191236wfc.190.1232045029122; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.90.10 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:43:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96f789a60901151043x59806890y3c7271fc4f680a89@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:43:49 -0500 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: example of du'u please? In-Reply-To: <5715b9300901151025n300d7025y22f20c9380ca7a0f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_266041_3996634.1232045029116" References: <5715b9300901151025n300d7025y22f20c9380ca7a0f@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1198 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_266041_3996634.1232045029116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Okay, "du'u", like all abstractors (nu, ku, ni and the less often encountered ones such as su'u, si'o and pu'u) takes a bridi and wraps it all up into one little package that acts as a selbri. In particular, that means you can take a whole sentence like "mi klama le zarci le zdani" (I went to the store from home), stick an abstractor in front of it (in this case du'u), and treat this as a single unit, meaning something akin to "a fact of me going to the store from home". Stick a lo/le in front of that and it becomes a sumti meaning this. This sumti is used in slots that (in general) require talking about abstract ideas or thoughts. For example "mi jinvi lo du'u mi klama le zarci le zdani" -- "I thought I went to the store". If you want anything to follow this package, you usually need to end it with the terminator "kei", otherwise the following stuff will be unintentionally wrapped up within the abstraction -- mi jinvi lo du'u mi klama le zarci le zdani kei lo prulamdei ("I thought I went to the store in regards to yesterday"). See chapter 11 of the reference grammar for more information. Hope this helps --gejyspa On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > I'm finding this a lot and the definition "abstractor: predication/bridi > abstractor; x1 is predication [bridi] expressed in sentence x2 at 0 > (cf. mintu, dunli)" is not very helpful to me. Could someone give me an > example of "du'u" in a real world sentence and explain how it affects the > sentence. I've found sentences with du'u in it that have english versions > of that sentence but I can't figure out what the "du'u" is actually doing! > > - Luke Bergen > ------=_Part_266041_3996634.1232045029116 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline T2theSwgJnF1b3Q7ZHUmIzM5O3UmcXVvdDssIGxpa2UgYWxsIGFic3RyYWN0b3JzIChudSwga3Us IG5pIGFuZCB0aGUgbGVzcyBvZnRlbiBlbmNvdW50ZXJlZCBvbmVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgc3UmIzM5O3Us IHNpJiMzOTtvIGFuZCBwdSYjMzk7dSkgdGFrZXMgYSBicmlkaSBhbmQgd3JhcHMgaXQgYWxsIHVw IGludG8gb25lIGxpdHRsZSBwYWNrYWdlIHRoYXQgYWN0cyBhcyBhIHNlbGJyaS4mbmJzcDsgSW4g cGFydGljdWxhciwgdGhhdCBtZWFucyB5b3UgY2FuIHRha2UgYSB3aG9sZSBzZW50ZW5jZSBsaWtl ICZxdW90O21pIGtsYW1hIGxlIHphcmNpIGxlIHpkYW5pJnF1b3Q7IChJIHdlbnQgdG8gdGhlIHN0 b3JlIGZyb20gaG9tZSksIHN0aWNrIGFuIGFic3RyYWN0b3IgaW4gZnJvbnQgb2YgaXQgKGluIHRo aXMgY2FzZSBkdSYjMzk7dSksIGFuZCB0cmVhdCB0aGlzIGFzIGEgc2luZ2xlIHVuaXQsIG1lYW5p bmcgc29tZXRoaW5nIGFraW4gdG8gJnF1b3Q7YSBmYWN0IG9mIG1lIGdvaW5nIHRvIHRoZSBzdG9y ZSBmcm9tIGhvbWUmcXVvdDsuJm5ic3A7IFN0aWNrIGEgbG8vbGUgaW4gZnJvbnQgb2YgdGhhdCBh bmQgaXQgYmVjb21lcyBhIHN1bXRpIG1lYW5pbmcgdGhpcy4mbmJzcDsgVGhpcyBzdW10aSBpcyB1 c2VkIGluIHNsb3RzIHRoYXQgKGluIGdlbmVyYWwpIHJlcXVpcmUgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCBhYnN0 cmFjdCBpZGVhcyBvciB0aG91Z2h0cy4mbmJzcDsgRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUgJnF1b3Q7bWkgamludmkg bG8gZHUmIzM5O3UgbWkga2xhbWEgbGUgemFyY2kgbGUgemRhbmkmcXVvdDsgLS0gJnF1b3Q7SSB0 aG91Z2h0IEkgd2VudCB0byB0aGUgc3RvcmUmcXVvdDsuJm5ic3A7IElmIHlvdSB3YW50IGFueXRo aW5nIHRvIGZvbGxvdyB0aGlzIHBhY2thZ2UsIHlvdSB1c3VhbGx5IG5lZWQgdG8gZW5kIGl0IHdp dGggdGhlIHRlcm1pbmF0b3IgJnF1b3Q7a2VpJnF1b3Q7LCBvdGhlcndpc2UgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2lu ZyBzdHVmZiB3aWxsIGJlIHVuaW50ZW50aW9uYWxseSB3cmFwcGVkIHVwIHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgYWJz dHJhY3Rpb24gLS0gbWkgamludmkgbG8gZHUmIzM5O3UgbWkga2xhbWEgbGUgemFyY2kgbGUgemRh bmkga2VpIGxvIHBydWxhbWRlaSAoJnF1b3Q7SSB0aG91Z2h0IEkgd2VudCB0byB0aGUgc3RvcmUg aW4gcmVnYXJkcyB0byB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkmcXVvdDspLiZuYnNwOyBTZWUgY2hhcHRlciAxMSBvZiB0 aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGdyYW1tYXIgZm9yIG1vcmUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uJm5ic3A7IDxicj4KPGJy PiZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyZuYnNwOyBIb3BlIHRoaXMgaGVscHM8YnI+Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7 Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IC0tZ2VqeXNw YTxicj48YnI+PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiPk9uIFRodSwgSmFuIDE1LCAyMDA5IGF0 IDE6MjUgUE0sIEx1a2UgQmVyZ2VuIDxzcGFuIGRpcj0ibHRyIj4mbHQ7PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRv Omx1a2VhYmVyZ2VuQGdtYWlsLmNvbSI+bHVrZWFiZXJnZW5AZ21haWwuY29tPC9hPiZndDs8L3Nw YW4+IHdyb3RlOjxicj4KPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIiBzdHlsZT0iYm9y ZGVyLWxlZnQ6IDFweCBzb2xpZCByZ2IoMjA0LCAyMDQsIDIwNCk7IG1hcmdpbjogMHB0IDBwdCAw cHQgMC44ZXg7IHBhZGRpbmctbGVmdDogMWV4OyI+SSYjMzk7bSBmaW5kaW5nIHRoaXMgYSBsb3Qg YW5kIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uICZxdW90O2Fic3RyYWN0b3I6IHByZWRpY2F0aW9uL2JyaWRpIGFi c3RyYWN0b3I7IHgxIGlzIHByZWRpY2F0aW9uIFticmlkaV0gZXhwcmVzc2VkIGluIHNlbnRlbmNl IHgyJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IGF0Jm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7IDAmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsm bmJzcDsgKGNmLiBtaW50dSwgZHVubGkpJnF1b3Q7IGlzIG5vdCB2ZXJ5IGhlbHBmdWwgdG8gbWUu Jm5ic3A7IENvdWxkIHNvbWVvbmUgZ2l2ZSBtZSBhbiBleGFtcGxlIG9mICZxdW90O2R1JiMzOTt1 JnF1b3Q7IGluIGEgcmVhbCB3b3JsZCBzZW50ZW5jZSBhbmQgZXhwbGFpbiBob3cgaXQgYWZmZWN0 cyB0aGUgc2VudGVuY2UuJm5ic3A7IEkmIzM5O3ZlIGZvdW5kIHNlbnRlbmNlcyB3aXRoIGR1JiMz OTt1IGluIGl0IHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBlbmdsaXNoIHZlcnNpb25zIG9mIHRoYXQgc2VudGVuY2UgYnV0 IEkgY2FuJiMzOTt0IGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgd2hhdCB0aGUgJnF1b3Q7ZHUmIzM5O3UmcXVvdDsgaXMg YWN0dWFsbHkgZG9pbmchPGJyIGNsZWFyPSJhbGwiPgo8Zm9udCBjb2xvcj0iIzg4ODg4OCI+Cjxi cj4gLSBMdWtlIEJlcmdlbjxicj4KPC9mb250PjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Rpdj48YnI+Cg== ------=_Part_266041_3996634.1232045029116--