From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 15 10:48:26 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNXGU-0005rf-7m for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:48:26 -0800 Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.170.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LNXGR-0005rR-FM for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:48:26 -0800 Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k40so1022340rnd.0 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:48:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=gk26fPm9UKpvf202HZrVZQAF+U14Gr3gJ7ub0vNQDC8=; b=JoeX/9AhWr1/EkGGivOS4tFPojPUIphVZvOPjHlvP2Ju2cwg64vl8sQ1xlQ5y1pPNe SUcdTk3AdvaHxlatVXA7ag41HyRmrN9AtG1bxG6gr/Gwr8/1PDi79gdgEVWANdfgfSL+ 38yCuhCFzpqPSs57rJ2ukwXYS+dSy9QABesf0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=figJIsMBxq4au/Ya8UEhnfLzziAf2//Tfgqhov/kpAPIkvuxbS1+WClU46Q5xQbTQj dGL0eD8T/VHFSgmIc9aQgx1ZVFydfLrfwS0pEXCWSjV6fYlKSc5PuRSXJyQa2W2gIKFm m2O3cW+igxC25J49yB+Gz5aAxztY2Xcr8sFLk= Received: by 10.151.141.8 with SMTP id t8mr4519675ybn.23.1232045301992; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.157.4 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:48:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5715b9300901151048l2cb78156gc97fe626cd751f0a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:48:21 -0500 From: "Luke Bergen" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: example of du'u please? In-Reply-To: <96f789a60901151043x59806890y3c7271fc4f680a89@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_88302_28393231.1232045301961" References: <5715b9300901151025n300d7025y22f20c9380ca7a0f@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60901151043x59806890y3c7271fc4f680a89@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1199 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_88302_28393231.1232045301961 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ahhh, that clears it up a lot for me. I haven't gotten to chapter 11 yet. I want to start reading stuff in lojban because I feel like that would be helpful for my learning, but it's hard when certain fundamental parts of speech aren't in my vocabulary yet. Thanks for the explanation and the link guys. - Luke Bergen On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Okay, "du'u", like all abstractors (nu, ku, ni and the less often > encountered ones such as su'u, si'o and pu'u) takes a bridi and wraps it all > up into one little package that acts as a selbri. In particular, that means > you can take a whole sentence like "mi klama le zarci le zdani" (I went to > the store from home), stick an abstractor in front of it (in this case > du'u), and treat this as a single unit, meaning something akin to "a fact of > me going to the store from home". Stick a lo/le in front of that and it > becomes a sumti meaning this. This sumti is used in slots that (in general) > require talking about abstract ideas or thoughts. For example "mi jinvi lo > du'u mi klama le zarci le zdani" -- "I thought I went to the store". If you > want anything to follow this package, you usually need to end it with the > terminator "kei", otherwise the following stuff will be unintentionally > wrapped up within the abstraction -- mi jinvi lo du'u mi klama le zarci le > zdani kei lo prulamdei ("I thought I went to the store in regards to > yesterday"). See chapter 11 of the reference grammar for more information. > > > Hope this helps > --gejyspa > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> I'm finding this a lot and the definition "abstractor: predication/bridi >> abstractor; x1 is predication [bridi] expressed in sentence x2 at 0 >> (cf. mintu, dunli)" is not very helpful to me. Could someone give me an >> example of "du'u" in a real world sentence and explain how it affects the >> sentence. I've found sentences with du'u in it that have english versions >> of that sentence but I can't figure out what the "du'u" is actually doing! >> >> - Luke Bergen >> > > ------=_Part_88302_28393231.1232045301961 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ahhh, that clears it up a lot for me.  I haven't gotten to chapter= 11 yet.  I want to start reading stuff in lojban because I feel like = that would be helpful for my learning, but it's hard when certain funda= mental parts of speech aren't in my vocabulary yet.  Thanks for th= e explanation and the link guys.

- Luke Bergen


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Michael= Turniansky <= mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, "du'u", like all abstractors (nu, ku, ni and the less o= ften encountered ones such as su'u, si'o and pu'u) takes a brid= i and wraps it all up into one little package that acts as a selbri.  = In particular, that means you can take a whole sentence like "mi klama= le zarci le zdani" (I went to the store from home), stick an abstract= or in front of it (in this case du'u), and treat this as a single unit,= meaning something akin to "a fact of me going to the store from home&= quot;.  Stick a lo/le in front of that and it becomes a sumti meaning = this.  This sumti is used in slots that (in general) require talking a= bout abstract ideas or thoughts.  For example "mi jinvi lo du'= ;u mi klama le zarci le zdani" -- "I thought I went to the store&= quot;.  If you want anything to follow this package, you usually need = to end it with the terminator "kei", otherwise the following stuf= f will be unintentionally wrapped up within the abstraction -- mi jinvi lo = du'u mi klama le zarci le zdani kei lo prulamdei ("I thought I wen= t to the store in regards to yesterday").  See chapter 11 of the = reference grammar for more information. 

     Hope this helps
    &nb= sp;      --gejyspa


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:25 PM, L= uke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm finding t= his a lot and the definition "abstractor: predication/bridi abstractor= ; x1 is predication [bridi] expressed in sentence x2    = ; at   0    (cf. mintu, dunli)" is not very h= elpful to me.  Could someone give me an example of "du'u"= ; in a real world sentence and explain how it affects the sentence.  I= 've found sentences with du'u in it that have english versions of t= hat sentence but I can't figure out what the "du'u" is ac= tually doing!

- Luke Bergen


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