From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jan 17 15:36:43 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:36:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LOKiZ-0007eR-2e for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:36:43 -0800 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LOKiW-0007eD-1t for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:36:43 -0800 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090117233632.YJKD2046.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@chausie> for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:36:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA8324B1 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:36:31 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Recommended method of learning... Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:36:30 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 References: <71550650901171409u48aef06av38d5cd2e846ea2c8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <71550650901171409u48aef06av38d5cd2e846ea2c8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200901171836.31023.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1217 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Saturday 17 January 2009 17:09:52 Yoav Nir wrote: > This is just my opinion: > > 1. Get a dictionary. Either create it on jbovlaste, or else download > from http://public.me.com/yoavetali (get ld.pdf) It's a little nicer > formatted, and I update it every month. > 2. Read through "Lojban for Beginners", and actually do the exercises in > writing. > 3. After that, try to translate some stuff. Start with simple things, > like Dr. Seuss or songs (don't worry about rhymes). You'll always have > to look things up, and that's how you learn. > 4. Reading also helps, and there's some translated stuff on the > lojban.org website. It is tiresome at first when you have to look up > every other word. Actually, translating songs is difficult, as you have to get the scansion right (or at least the number of syllables close). "le cmalu bloti" is translated pretty well, but "da kevna le baktu" has some wrong place structures, and "There was an old woman" has something not quite right, I don't remember what (besides {laldo}, which is either a Loglan word or a discarded gismu). I recommend hanging out on #lojban in IRC. Most of the Lojban is short and simple sentences. I've been talking Lojban for years and still sometimes someone uses a gismu I don't know. When reading a translation, when you run into a word you don't know, look at the original (or a version in a language you already know - the original of the Bible (which has only a few verses and chapters translated) is Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). If you'd like to try translating a song, here's a partial translation of one (the third verse is rather different). I think of restructuring it so that the verse is said by an approaching visitor, and the chorus, instead of being a refrain, is the answer of Joseph, Mary, and the wise men (using "ti" or "vi"). Btw, I'm not sure if "luvbona" is spelled right. le va mo cifnu cu vreta be le la mariam. cutne ku sipna gi'e se sagrinsa lo .angeli gi'e selzga lo lanku'i .i mu'i ma do dunda lo luvbona .e lo solji .e lo molmolo le cifnu doi le prije be do'e le stuna mu'o mi'e pier