From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Mar 01 21:34:22 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Le0nG-00029a-BW for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:34:22 -0800 Received: from mx.freeshell.org ([192.94.73.19] helo=sdf.lonestar.org ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Le0nB-000297-PE for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:34:22 -0800 Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@svalbard.freeshell.org [192.94.73.10]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n225YCCk002091 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:34:13 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.12.8/Submit) id n225YCiL016036 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:34:12 GMT Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:34:12 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: How to express " though " "even if " Message-ID: <20090302053409.GA12086@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <70697fa40903012056l33282c52wa186bb16109c5059@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <70697fa40903012056l33282c52wa186bb16109c5059@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Organization: SDF Public Access UNIX System X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1373 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners de'i li 02 pi'e 03 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. J Y .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > Is it : > > mi pindi .i ku'i mi gleki .skamyxatra That literally means "I am poor. However, I am happy." > ---- mi gleki .i seku'ibo mi pindi That's grammatically incorrect. "{ku'i}" is a discursive (of {selma'o} UI) and so can't be modified by "{se}" or "{bo}" (perhaps you were thinking of "{ki'u}"?). > ---- mi gleki gi'u sei da'inai pindi "{da'i}" is also a discursive, and so there is absolutely no reason to precede it with "{sei}." In fact, in this instance, the "{sei}" also includes the "{pindi}", resulting in the incomplete statement "I am happy, regardless of [In fact, one is poor] ..." in which "{gi'u}" has no right operand. Combining your attempts into "{mi gleki gi'u ku'i pindi}" (or "{mi pindi ku'i segi'u gleki}") should provide the correct combination of contrast and causative independence that you're trying to convey, though it doesn't explicitly state that you are, in fact, poor. Looking through the {cmavo} list right now, "{ki'unai lonu mi pindi kei mi gleki}" seems to be exactly what you want; I was unaware that "{nai}" could be attached to modals. Carrying the use of uncommon constructs a step further, "{mi pindi gi'e seki'unai bo gleki}" may be even more desirable for you, along with its many variations, which are left as an exercise to the reader. mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. -- ko na xalni