From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 02 17:57:51 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LeJtH-0004oa-7J for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:57:51 -0800 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LeJtF-0004oM-4D for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:57:51 -0800 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090303015742.QNKA4483.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@chausie> for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2009 01:57:42 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9A33284 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:57:42 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: grammar check for my first few sentences Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 20:57:38 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <20090302231357.GF25033@sunflowerriver.org> <20090302233739.GA4545@sdf.lonestar.org> In-Reply-To: <20090302233739.GA4545@sdf.lonestar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200903022057.39026.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1380 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Monday 02 March 2009 18:37:40 Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 02 pi'e 03 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Alan Post .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > > .i se lu pa re ci li'u cusku do > > ("123" you said.) > > > > Are the lu/li'u required here? Is this the same sentence as "se pa > > re ci cusku do" or is that saying "the concept of 123 you speak > > about?" I assume the status of lu/li'u is the same if you replace > > "pa re ci" with "coi." > .skamyxatra > > The "{lu}" and "{li'u}" are required; however, the "{se}" needs to be > placed immediately before the "{cusku}," without any intervening {sumti}. > Also, saying "{pa re ci se cusku do}" would mean "123 utterances [are > somehow related to] you," as a bare number string acts as a quantifier for > a {sumti} rather than as a separate {sumti}. You could also say "me'o pa re ci cu se cusku do". The difference between that and "lu pa re ci li'u se cusku do" is that in the first, you're saying digits, and in the second, you're saying words. You can also terminate "me'o" or "li" with "lo'o" and drop "cu". Non-beginners: I tried this without the "cu" and jbofi'e spat it out. The reason is that "se" can modify a mathematical operator: li pareci sevu'u cirepa du li cirepa vu'u pareci. camxes would accept it, I suppose, but the LALR(1) grammar doesn't. mu'omi'e .pier.