From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 10 15:17:35 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LhAGV-0001Yf-JZ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:17:35 -0700 Received: from mx.freeshell.org ([192.94.73.19] helo=sdf.lonestar.org ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LhAGR-0001YB-Pe for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:17:35 -0700 Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@iceland.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n2AMHSZH015220 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:17:28 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.12.8/Submit) id n2AMHSTP025099 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:17:28 GMT Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:17:28 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: vreta Message-ID: <20090310221726.GA13218@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <5715b9300903101354n1f06bcfbmc485a82c5b8b25df@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5715b9300903101354n1f06bcfbmc485a82c5b8b25df@mail.gmail.com> Organization: SDF Public Access UNIX System User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1410 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners de'i li 10 pi'e 03 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Luke Bergen .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > Why would a gismu have a definition like "ing"? It seems like the > definition should be "recline" and to get "reclining" you would have to say > "nu vreta". .skamyxatra Yet another reason why Lojban is superior to English: it does not cause this kind of confusion. The problem is that, in English, the present participle of a verb (the form used, among other places, in the progressive form, e.g., "Zoe is ____ing") is the same as the gerund (the form used in a noun phrase corresponding to Lojban "{nu}"). "Is reclining" is a verb phrase, the progressive form of "reclines," while "reclining" in "Reclining is easy" is a gerund used to represent the event or activity of being one who reclines. The second definition of "{vreta}" reads "x1 is reclining," which is simply a slightly different way of stating "x1 reclines." (Theoretically, it could mean "x1 is the event of reclining," but that would conflict with the first definition, not to mention being annoying & useless.) Does it make sense now? In short, it's English's fault, not Lojban's. mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. -- mi citka loi cidjrspageti fi'o sanmi lo cersai