From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Apr 01 10:53:10 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lp4cf-0002uV-VI for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:53:10 -0700 Received: from mail-qy0-f122.google.com ([209.85.221.122]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lp4cb-0002tu-SZ for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:53:09 -0700 Received: by qyk28 with SMTP id 28so350634qyk.28 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=9ImP2SsjdMnWrWyexhug9JxJ9N3EcfRcnMYEbDZ2fgc=; b=wEsj9XgizkPUD+D1B+AIEvUiE2t90n2ix5an7+LBAeAUndg6Rr8NygYmX7QD7QZw+T M0gvVMW65L/h7YkUk6pb+fa83VitptKxKfKYrSsw59opIm2B+PqTQ7Uo9U0cy9dzblbb 2lqM7ObENRO7KvtO5jIIzBCpLrz3ydaEigvaM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Ph6puAa5q/QxzEoyp/oytQrCoAlnfpMDLF6JteeIH8Fg4VnpV43sxteSVDrC8U1/K1 aYmT/qpz34bedSKc/2IGLslNjYCR8tSWqJvFtAlIMdKze02+CXi9VJmdpVcmOUmJSvIn vjCfvMfwYM3hNPFJtbsr2FS3kJzBXE5COR+RE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.70.210 with SMTP id e18mr3667285vcj.24.1238608378317; Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:52:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96f789a60904011037i2b487956h3e250f57765d70e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300903312101y8a22955vc5b7bed6e52e9ae6@mail.gmail.com> <425e4ac20903312243n4089d005nc34ea4edadd6f731@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300904010902o467aa98fv958a70256f3bf49@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60904011037i2b487956h3e250f57765d70e4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:52:58 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300904011052p6114099bk7cb7c2b51cd89576@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: la'e di'u From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64718ae684a11046681fc2b X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1465 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016e64718ae684a11046681fc2b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I see, so it is grammatical to refer to "se go'i", "te go'i", etc...? .i mi klama lo zarci lo mi selxa'u la mein strit lo relxilma'e Now, "go'i", "se go'i", "te go'i", etc... could all be translated as "it" where "it" refers to "myself", "the store", "my home", "main street", and "the bike" from the previous utterance? I didn't know go'i could be that flexible. so if: "la djan pu tcidu la nicte cadzu" then I could say "mi djica lo nu mi tcidu la'e se go'i" for "I want to read that too"? which brings me to another question, how can you say "la luk bergen"? My name is made up of two cmene but how do people know that "bergen" falls under the "la". If a cmene has two names can the "ku" no longer be elided? - Luke Bergen On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > > > hmm, so let's suppose the conversation: > > jon doesn't enjoy rock climbing. > > he does it anyway though. > > > > how would I express "it" in this context? > > > > I see this being maybe "la jon na prami (what word for enjoy?) lo nu > rokci > > cpare .i ku'i la jy se go'i". Or maybe "se di'u". Neither of those look > > right though. It feels like there should be a way for saying "put the > > referent of the x2 place of some other utterance " > > la jon na zanfri lo nu rokci cpare (or "cpare lo rokci" to be more > precise) .iku'i jy (NOT "la jy". "jy" is already a sumti by itself, > "J") zukte lo se go'i > > Let's go through this step by step: > la jon <-- x1 of "nelci" > na <-- "not", negates the whole bridi > zanfri <-- "enjoys" > lo nu cpare lo rokci <- "rock climbing", the x2 of zanfri > .i <-- sentence break > jy <-- "J", the x1 of zukte, refers back to "la jon" > zukte <-- "does act" > lo se go'i <-- the x2 of the previous bridi, which is now the x2 of > this sentence > > --gejyspa > > > > --0016e64718ae684a11046681fc2b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I see, so it is grammatical to refer to "se go'i", "te g= o'i", etc...?

.i mi klama lo zarci lo mi selxa'u la mei= n strit lo relxilma'e

Now, "go'i", "se go'= ;i", "te go'i", etc... could all be translated as "= it" where "it" refers to "myself", "the store= ", "my home", "main street", and "the bike&qu= ot; from the previous utterance?=A0 I didn't know go'i could be tha= t flexible.

so if:=A0=A0 "la djan pu tcidu la nicte cadzu" then I could s= ay "mi djica lo nu mi tcidu la'e se go'i" for "I wan= t to read that too"?

which brings me to another q= uestion, how can you say "la luk bergen"?=A0 My name is made up o= f two cmene but how do people know that "bergen" falls under the = "la".=A0 If a cmene has two names can the "ku" no longe= r be elided?

- Luke Bergen


On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Michael = Turniansky <m= turniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hmm, so let's suppose the conversation:
> jon doesn't enjoy rock climbing.
> he does it anyway though.
>
> how would I express "it" in this context?
>
> I see this being maybe "la jon na prami (what word for enjoy?) lo= nu rokci
> cpare .i ku'i la jy se go'i".=A0 Or maybe "se di'= ;u".=A0 Neither of those look
> right though.=A0 It feels like there should be a way for saying "= put the
> referent of the x2 place of some other utterance <HERE>"
=A0la jon na zanfri lo nu rokci cpare (or "cpare lo rokci" = to be more
precise) .iku'i jy =A0(NOT "la jy". "jy" is already= a sumti by itself,
"J") zukte lo se go'i

=A0Let's go through this step by step:
la jon <-- x1 of "nelci"
na <-- "not", =A0negates the whole bridi
zanfri <-- "enjoys"
lo nu cpare lo rokci <- "rock climbing", the x2 of zanfri
.i =A0<-- sentence break
jy <-- "J", the x1 of zukte, refers back to "la jon"=
zukte <-- "does act"
lo se go'i <-- the x2 of the previous bridi, which is now the x2 of<= br> this sentence

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa




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