From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Apr 08 08:30:47 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LrZjj-0001P4-Kh for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:30:47 -0700 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.149]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LrZje-0001O2-6M for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:30:47 -0700 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 9so100491qwj.58 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:30:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=trrpGtrwBhnK/Ejj4FoX0PD0FXKW6DwUOQgH4c8+RQc=; b=uTYMkhF/DvHhClYYAwjRreRkrl9tjWSmbmHqfTLnalfQFAhlbUPUberI4/kM+s1Y/n JfcVW7pbiczW84/55YWA6Th7FkcWAYwOggFFwjCM1fT8BotH+GOA5jBlB9/dyd8jF7GP z4FItqyg9DYn3na6RAZ5iVysSvB+KK3PiKJGE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qowxuQpjWDaEuirX7ZhGsLCVP0PO3Kx2qryKK1sUJ+XD2Ii6zaTf55qlr08c4RlAVK cG2NfeZjQszJofRbML5pc5bUv5j5D2VPbt8I7UDGlhkytJES4JEATZ5QCXyPpQ8NfJpZ 7/O0wqZv9EcbDolG660zxVu/TwftkNXEtkDV0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.46.3 with SMTP id h3mr2076582vcf.38.1239204639647; Wed, 08 Apr 2009 08:30:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090408150248.GA28693@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <5715b9300904080740r17f52d3bmdae74423de602f6a@mail.gmail.com> <20090408150248.GA28693@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:30:39 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300904080830g4231d28dve38acc17b02c420@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: .ijo w/ more than one argument From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b8c2859bee404670cd0b2 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: oh, I see. Yes, that is kind of tricky, and very counter-intuitive IMO. - Luke Bergen On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Minimiscience wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (-2.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-archive-position: 1479 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016363b8c2859bee404670cd0b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh, I see. Yes, that is kind of tricky, and very counter-intuitive IMO. - Luke Bergen On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 08 pi'e 04 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Luke Bergen .fy. cusku zoi > skamyxatra. > > so in example 7.3 of chapter 14 in the CLL, we have the following: > > mi dotco .ijo mi ricfu .ijo mi nanmu > > I am-German. If-and-only-if I am-rich. If-and-only-if I am-a-man. > > > > after which it says that if we work out the truth table for this we > > see that an accurate translation of this would be: > > Of the three properties --- German-ness, wealth, and manhood -- I > > possess either exactly one or else all three. > > > > But this looks to me like this would be exactly 0 or all three, not > > exactly 1. Could someone explain this (admittedly) very > > counter-intuitive result? > .skamyxatra > > A single "iff" statement is true if both operands are true OR both operands > are > false. Thus, if you are neither German nor rich, then "{mi dotco .ijo mi > ricfu}" is true, and so "{mi dotco .ijo mi ricfu .ijo mi nanmu}" would > require > that you are a man in order to be true. Similarly, if you are German or > rich, > but not both, then "{mi dotco .ijo mi ricfu}" is false, and so you cannot > also > be a man. The truth table looks like this: > > d|r|n|d<->r<->n > -|-|-|--------- > T|T|T| T > T|T|F| F > T|F|T| F > T|F|F| T > F|T|T| F > F|T|F| T > F|F|T| T > F|F|F| F > > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. > > -- > bu'u la lojbangug. lo bangu cu daspo do > > > > --0016363b8c2859bee404670cd0b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oh, I see.=A0 Yes, that is kind of tricky, and very counter-intuitive IMO.<= br>
- Luke Bergen


On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Minimis= cience <min= imiscience@gmail.com> wrote:
de'i li 08 pi'e 04 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Luke Bergen .fy. cusk= u zoi skamyxatra.
> so in example 7.3 of chapter 14 in the CLL, we have = the following:
> mi dotco .ijo mi ricfu .ijo mi nanmu
> I am-German. =A0If-and-only-if I am-rich. If-and-only-if I am-a-man. >
> after which it says that if we work out the truth table for this we > see that an accurate translation of this would be:
> Of the three properties --- German-ness, wealth, and manhood -- I
> possess either exactly one or else all three.
>
> But this looks to me like this would be exactly 0 or all three, not > exactly 1. =A0Could someone explain this (admittedly) very
> counter-intuitive result?
.skamyxatra

A single "iff" statement is true if both operands are true OR bot= h operands are
false. =A0Thus, if you are neither German nor rich, then "{mi dotco .i= jo mi
ricfu}" is true, and so "{mi dotco .ijo mi ricfu .ijo mi nanmu}&q= uot; would require
that you are a man in order to be true. =A0Similarly, if you are German or = rich,
but not both, then "{mi dotco .ijo mi ricfu}" is false, and so yo= u cannot also
be a man. =A0The truth table looks like this:

=A0d|r|n|d<->r<->n
=A0-|-|-|---------
=A0T|T|T| =A0 =A0T
=A0T|T|F| =A0 =A0F
=A0T|F|T| =A0 =A0F
=A0T|F|F| =A0 =A0T
=A0F|T|T| =A0 =A0F
=A0F|T|F| =A0 =A0T
=A0F|F|T| =A0 =A0T
=A0F|F|F| =A0 =A0F

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

--
bu'u la lojbangug. lo bangu cu daspo do




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