From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Apr 17 12:10:19 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LutS6-00082d-Vl for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:19 -0700 Received: from mail-qy0-f131.google.com ([209.85.221.131]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LutS3-00081Z-Fw for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:18 -0700 Received: by qyk37 with SMTP id 37so3431227qyk.28 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=qwGVI+T9s8fkr5XPpAEjyH6fux3JlaGKZ88a/Yptv4c=; b=AzNmuJfwhuXvsE5qTpm1NCVUKQPFFBrsIQQviwSBemqvAzMUYfvIYcams1XHn2suBq 2hOUfV9kldVIWLwx7JSA8u/5C4vK6fOKTwMR0LRavfmlCO+x+nXJO5G0kOeicuoT3Z+f LjUC0V+ud2fF8iyFZQGr+Lykcnw8hW4INrZj8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=tDbbDP6QEmA/0E8ku/fHxGOqIeCuAYMw86G7a1+xO9O3MWLaeAYTuNbc0dVaOFSQxv bwuDaKI1gvOJUPKzstAqok9kywPsSxYKEneHu/Q/8b2etcUBXdg65ecBUimcnBWOtMgV HubUJl7VZxABD7Q0QyDqcUPThV5FXl9dLLjD0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.44.212 with SMTP id b20mr3432515vcf.116.1239995408389; Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4de8c3930904171149r2605f6d1y8030807c705b4570@mail.gmail.com> References: <4de8c3930904170755t415ec77byc42e8417e7764b3f@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300904170833q1210b85ep14244505484b8444@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300904171024j722f144ft5f3860b65c5fe9e9@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930904171149r2605f6d1y8030807c705b4570@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:10:08 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300904171210i49d03792ta0cf8df85507c4a9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: du & mintu From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6468f68d72afa0467c4ed7b X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: mmm, good point. Again, I'm really not sure about this so please, anyone with more experience jump in if I have this wrong but the way I see it is as follows: du creates the closest relationship in saying that these two labels refer to the same actual object [...] Content analysis details: (-2.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-archive-position: 1545 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016e6468f68d72afa0467c4ed7b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmm, good point. Again, I'm really not sure about this so please, anyone with more experience jump in if I have this wrong but the way I see it is as follows: du creates the closest relationship in saying that these two labels refer to the same actual object mintu is next in that it says that the two objects are "interchangeable" so they are identical in every conceivable way but are still two distinct objects. dunli means that the two objects are congruent/equal to but since it gives the x3 position to specify in what property they are equal I understand dunli to mean that they are equal in some way, not necissarily in EVERY way. long story short: IMO du makes labels refer to same object. mintu makes distinct objects identical. dunli makes two distinct objects equal in some property x3 - Luke Bergen On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:49 PM, tijlan wrote: > 2009/4/17 Luke Bergen : > > But "this stick mintu that stick" > > is to say that there are two different actual objects but that their > attributes are identical. > > Couldn't that also be "this stick dunli that stick"? In fact, "mintu" > has no terbri for "the attributes in which the two sticks are > identical", while "dunli" has (x3). > > mu'o mi'e tijlan > > > > --0016e6468f68d72afa0467c4ed7b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mmm, good point.=A0 Again, I'm really not sure about this so please, an= yone with more experience jump in if I have this wrong but the way I see it= is as follows:

du creates the closest relationship in saying that t= hese two labels refer to the same actual object

mintu is next in that it says that the two objects are "interchang= eable" so they are identical in every conceivable way but are still tw= o distinct objects.

dunli means that the two objects are congruent/e= qual to but since it gives the x3 position to specify in what property they= are equal I understand dunli to mean that they are equal in some way, not = necissarily in EVERY way.

long story short:=A0 IMO du makes labels refer to same object.=A0 mintu= makes distinct objects identical.=A0 dunli makes two distinct objects equa= l in some property x3

- Luke Bergen


On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:49 PM, tijlan = <pascal.ak= ihiko@gmail.com> wrote:
2009/4/17 Luke Bergen <lukeaber= gen@gmail.com>:
> But "this stick mintu that stick"
> is to say that there are two different actual objects but that their a= ttributes are identical.

Couldn't that also be "this stick dunli that stick"? In= fact, "mintu"
has no terbri for "the attributes in which the two sticks are
identical", while "dunli" has (x3).

mu'o mi'e tijlan




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