From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Apr 18 22:46:03 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LvPqt-0002j0-If for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:46:03 -0700 Received: from mail-qy0-f131.google.com ([209.85.221.131]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LvPqq-0002iI-15 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:46:03 -0700 Received: by qyk37 with SMTP id 37so4711940qyk.28 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:45:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=pKlrmMLJsnxOWDhT2IQMf+1TtbTFTl3rFj1rOl4MXjQ=; b=aLphjDgefurXQ8q6DtjKBdcw9bnLv81TWJPIcv0OoT2qvR68n/23/srVhw9UNj7zJr vbMMbfa63T4lWEkHKEHotkklHRoVvO+wWBImvm1iWT6sXAQsaKle5hjpDcbRvQvhB42i ZT/wkxdYO+WlRPIN6irgezcbg6uDceX8qBm4w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=gjC+MoPJz8IrPi8nC9e1ETsCGATouGVq9UvTLxAddAlPE2jQjAmjWRYD8scE4h/lSF CQ84zXc8/zGgL+SN+91mjuDjZ15l0oQyduRVnAbDvYiOAMWubJKrFoSQ8U8EsI1KCB8u p6stsunSMQEDtNhG/8OiwZT/+qWfHWPgXzi7c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.99.149 with SMTP id u21mr4389942vcn.94.1240119953386; Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:45:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090419000852.GF17828@digitalkingdom.org> References: <5715b9300904181435r70e35abdx57bd1d39e4a4174d@mail.gmail.com> <20090418215529.GE17828@digitalkingdom.org> <5715b9300904181504n6fe3d7f7ga6cc10258e5c24ef@mail.gmail.com> <20090419000852.GF17828@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:45:53 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300904182245g28f2319axad25c7877dd20394@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: order of sumti effects their meaning? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64650a04ceecd0467e1ed06 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: sorry, I guess I was mis-understanding you. I suppose my trouble was in understanding predicate logic itself, not necessarily the logical language :) - Luke Bergen On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (-2.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-archive-position: 1561 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016e64650a04ceecd0467e1ed06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sorry, I guess I was mis-understanding you. I suppose my trouble was in understanding predicate logic itself, not necessarily the logical language :) - Luke Bergen On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Robin Lee Powell < rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote: > On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 06:04:38PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > > I guess where I'm confused is this: > > > > 5.5) de poi gerku cu batci > > ro da poi prenu > > There-is-a-Y which is-a-dog which-bites > > every Y which is-a-person > > Some dog bites everyone. > > > > 5.6) ro da poi prenu cu se batci > > de poi gerku > > Every-X which is-a-person is-bitten-by some-Y > > which is-a-dog. > > > > > > So, in 5.5 "de poi gerku" equates to "some single thing which is a > > dog" but in 5.6 it's "some thing which is a dog". Why? > > I just explained that. At length. > > > When you quantify a variable does that automatically make all > > following variables in terms of it? > > Yes. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic > > -Robin > > -- > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something > other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/*** > http://www.lojban.org/ > > > > --0016e64650a04ceecd0467e1ed06 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry, I guess I was mis-understanding you.=A0 I suppose my trouble was in = understanding predicate logic itself, not necessarily the logical language = :)

- Luke Bergen


On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Robin L= ee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 06:04:38PM -0400, Luke Bergen wro= te:
> I guess where I'm confused is this:
>
> 5.5) =A0de poi gerku cu batci
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ro da poi prenu
> =A0 =A0 There-is-a-Y which is-a-dog which-bites
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 every Y which is-a-person
> =A0 =A0 Some dog bites everyone.
>
> 5.6) =A0ro da poi prenu cu se batci
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 de poi gerku
> =A0 =A0 Every-X which is-a-person is-bitten-by some-Y
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 which is-a-dog.
>
>
> So, in 5.5 "de poi gerku" equates to "some single thing= which is a
> dog" but in 5.6 it's "some thing which is a dog". = =A0Why?

I just explained that. =A0At length.

> When you quantify a variable does that automatically make all
> following variables in terms of it?

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-order_logic

-Robin

--
They say: =A0"The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons.&= quot;
And I'm thinking: =A0"Does it even occur to you to try for somethi= ng
other than the default outcome?" -- http://shorl.com/tydruhedufogre
ht= tp://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/




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