From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Apr 29 15:47:58 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LzIZJ-00083x-V6 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:47:58 -0700 Received: from mx.freeshell.org ([192.94.73.19] helo=sdf.lonestar.org ident=root) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LzIZH-00083P-DM for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:47:57 -0700 Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@iceland.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n3TMlgfV001719 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:47:48 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.12.8/Submit) id n3TMlafo022290 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:47:36 GMT Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:47:36 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: cmevla/ma'ogri + zei + tanru Message-ID: <20090429224735.GA11757@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <4de8c3930904291515r586b69d4tcebe465acb9610ea@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4de8c3930904291515r586b69d4tcebe465acb9610ea@mail.gmail.com> Organization: SDF Public Access UNIX System User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (sdf.lonestar.org [192.94.73.19]); Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:47:49 +0000 (UTC) X-archive-position: 1592 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners de'i li 30 pi'e 04 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. tijlan .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > How do you zei a cmevla or a cmavo cluster with a tanru? Perhaps by ke-ing it? > > la .elizabet. zei ke brito nolrai > > la 2009 zei ke boltipkei terjvi > > (I know we can just say "la .elizabet. noi brito nolrai" and "lo > boltipkei terjvi pe li 2009", but I'm exploring zei's possibilities.) .skamyxatra ZEI takes exactly one word on either side (so no {cmavo} clusters), and it takes effect before the regular grammar, so the "{ke}" will serve as the {tertau} of a {lujvo} modifying "{brito nolrai}." In order to use ZEI with a {tanru} on one side, said {tanru} has to be converted into a {lujvo} first. However, in the cases given above, ME is a far better option than ZEI: "{me la .elizabet. ke brito nolrai}" and "{me li renonoso ke boltipkei terjvi}." Note that the first line, like the ZEI attempt above, actually means "Elizabethan British royalty" and not "Elizabeth, British royal" as "{la .elizabet. noi brito nolrai}" means. mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. -- loi jetnu ka'e bartu .ije ku'i loi jitfa cu nenri lo stedu be do