From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri May 01 06:18:48 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 01 May 2009 06:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lzsdc-000625-9G for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 06:18:48 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f165.google.com ([209.85.219.165]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LzsdZ-0005wQ-Ak for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 01 May 2009 06:18:48 -0700 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so2155053ewy.34 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 06:18:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=075kLIAvhw/MpiytptOaMjh0+A/HlRqNZgKGROOv46A=; b=jO4Z2OQ+uiqzTzM6UBlTnEP+2EAmqvn12PfnUhlzCq/73s4YRu5aveClen0lFXYD/0 nsW9qQpJe1+ArpDEV8ok4eRpDcHZTVoH+3a5cPOTsCvcBI1/Qtn81m2Hvwgz3DU+GGCM 3UAIuGHgQOuarEv6pUd2ZRoveAt/wY3q6zlUI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Ui+K8ZETDI037IyvldE3DsEFyjZ6ULcSGYhk7J6Eyi6Mu7BGDU3D3z6Gn/0kE4hYwT X8Xk8BM/SDOZ1ezBGlDXiojnVD3c8e0hh/iO+RlLu8JC2wDAXzwyOVdyntCEvhS+f7E8 GKgVLgh2ZTEHvrCaW8Mcnuoxe911/xAo0Jr5A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.25.209 with SMTP id z59mr845538wez.204.1241183918958; Fri, 01 May 2009 06:18:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <23f4e3390905010415v61424da6me4d3c96c132a2589@mail.gmail.com> References: <4de8c3930905010303g75b3d726t79e98ef4efe9ccff@mail.gmail.com> <23f4e3390905010415v61424da6me4d3c96c132a2589@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:18:38 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f1c3d47c5ecaa191 Message-ID: <4de8c3930905010618x7dad439dy780e59f35f58240f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojban meaning approximately "posture"? From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 1609 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jbotijlan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/5/1 David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com>: > ko seltra le cutne mo'iga'u .e betfu mo'iga'u .e tupyjanco mo'i ni'a je ti'a The x1 of "seltra" is the x2 of "tarti" i.e. posture. "ko" itself cannot be a posture. You could just say "ko tarti ...". The connective "e" is for sumtis. "betfu" is a selbri. You need a gadri (descriptor) to make it a sumti. The same for "tupyjanco". I'm not sure about the tags (mo'iga'u, mo'i ni'a je ti'a). They are part of the main bridi itself, not exclusively of the individual terbris (arguments), unless you join them up with something like BE or GOI. You could say: le cutne be mo'iga'u .e le betfu be mo'iga'u .e le tupyjanco be mo'i ni'a je ti'a Another possibility is to group each pair as a termset, either with the afterthought "ce'e" or the forethought "nu'i ... nu'u": le cutne ce'e mo'iga'u pe'e je le betfu ce'e mo'iga'u pe'e je le tupyjanco ce'e mo'i ni'a je ti'a That is: [ le cutne ce'e mo'iga'u ] pe'e je [ le betfu ce'e mo'iga'u ] pe'e je [ le tupyjanco ce'e mo'i ni'a je ti'a ] "je" is used instead of "e" because it's not sumtis that are connected, according to CLL. And "pe'e" marks the connective as joining termsets. There is a confusing example in CLL, however: 14.15) la djeimyz. ce'e la meris. pe'e .e la djordj. ce'e la martas. prami James [plus] Mary [joint] and George [plus] Martha loves. "e" is used instead of "je". I don't know why, given that "je" is used in: 11.2) mi klama le zarci ce'e le briju pe'e je le zdani ce'e le ckule I go to-the market [plus] from-the office [joint] and to-the house [plus] from-the school. mu'o mi'e tijlan