From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jun 10 03:25:09 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MEKzU-0002b5-IC for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:25:09 -0700 Received: from web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.200.104]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MEKzM-0002Yt-E6 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:25:08 -0700 Received: (qmail 33493 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2009 10:24:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1244629493; bh=pbWZcreePn7ZfqshVdZ8UuIyR66eHSmsn05VO90MTy4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=n6vdSyKETkhMBucphPlrKGw3+5R3oSxucbxVc8QYkWs+4X/zPJQKKqUJwEF+IMpHJv45py7xNnJFADYE9rEkqFym0VZFp1qwIhUYZ5vMxoAX/RvdXYp9AEDgVg9gzE34Vt8Q5B5QvSsNhkpOGMHv4DtBA2KObWoElxw2Y8Ii33s= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Pg+EoREQ2q+749qoagOA3Xt86fdsbXtz7zrxHCBDFMMXCYyjAQP+dUev14YvKhRvXFNSrSkk1TiY8DXgjlhz9rODyG7pTGwMzvb01rH6Cx1faBlg7G8sX1+ggQ+6XPQhqhgRQEjLjGnfadqpvEq/lFn5lLJAb4w/3U+o/bOb8lc=; Message-ID: <822446.33304.qm@web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: i7Lw2WcVM1l3oCmBvwEuHjG5lwT1dk8Da9P66h6F0YPRVkwtMEuf2DMykHhmHMVr__X_NuCcRfx8odz9ND4QiguHMIv6oXGGsX4pWIgftNWnGwdS8WiTBc2yR79VdWKGQmgqEg6QSC0eLvZXHilfLBq4P3NT8sfMUnGAQ7v1Bx2s_kAWh5nGlrgqWpE7s2WT1qQOslt4bvT1r0dP0mUN_vdAY5YSPWObOJQELFKuIM2Beq5ZrS5_cAXc5W3lJDcRmm7NiezgAKMT2Y5ZoM_2oEsOaWCNgl.khT1Cc1S.Tsx0M.Kwag-- Received: from [82.122.133.68] by web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:24:52 PDT Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:24:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gysel Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Seizing my life To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-525961034-1244629492=:33304" X-archive-position: 1803 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: to_mu1975@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-525961034-1244629492=:33304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable so, i rewrite to: do darxi fi ny. ja'e le nu ny. cu jinsa =A0 And if=A0I write: do darxi fi ny. ja'e le nu jinsa can people think it is 'do' that is clean? or do they know its 'le ny.' ? =A0 =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 6/9/09, tijlan wrote: From: tijlan Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Seizing my life To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 1:31 PM 2009/6/9 Tom Gysel : > "Seizing my life in your hands, > you trashed it clean on the > savage rocks of Eternal Mind." > > A piece of a poem, which I translated as: > > do noi jgari le mi jmive le do xance > pu darxi fi jy. ja'e jy. cu jinsa > fe le cilce rokci po'e le cimni menli > > 1.Is my translation grammatically correct? > 2.Do I need 'ku'o' at the end of 'noi...'? Or does the 'pu' close off > everything ? According to jbofi'e, "pu" is part of the noi clause, not of "darxi". So, yes, you need "ku'o" (or "cu" alternatively). You need to turn "jy. cu jinsa" into an abstraction sumti ("le nu ...") for it to be part of the tag "ja'e". You would also need the terminator "kei" after the abstraction, to separate it from the following "fe le cilce rokci". > 3.Anything else I could have done better, or more elegantly? > How would you have done it? I would use "fau le nu ..." for "Seizing ..." so that "do" comes after like the original "you" does. "le mi jmive" means "a living/organic thing which is related to me". To me "life" in this context seems to mean an event rather than an organic thing. Maybe "lo mi nu jmive". Here's my take: fau le nu kavbu lo mi nunji'e le do xance kei do vimri'a ny. sei curve fa'a le cilce rokci ne le cimni menli mu'o pempre mi'e tijlan =0A=0A=0A --0-525961034-1244629492=:33304 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
so, i rewrite to:
do darxi fi ny. ja'e le nu ny. cu jinsa
 
And if I write:
do darxi fi ny. ja'e le nu jinsa
can people think it is 'do' that is clean? or do they know its 'le ny.= ' ?
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 6/9/09, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

From: tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>
Subje= ct: [lojban-beginners] Re: Seizing my life
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.o= rg
Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 1:31 PM

2009/6/9 Tom Gysel <to_mu1975@yahoo.com>:
> "Seizing my life in your= hands,
> you trashed it clean on the
> savage rocks of Eternal= Mind."
>
> A piece of a poem, which I translated as:
>> do noi jgari le mi jmive le do xance
> pu darxi fi jy. ja'e jy= . cu jinsa
> fe le cilce rokci po'e le cimni menli
>
> 1.= Is my translation grammatically correct?
> 2.Do I need 'ku'o' at the = end of 'noi...'? Or does the 'pu' close off
> everything ?

Acc= ording to jbofi'e, "pu" is part of the noi clause, not of "darxi".
So, y= es, you need "ku'o" (or "cu" alternatively).

You need to turn "jy. c= u jinsa" into an abstraction sumti ("le nu
...") for it to be part of th= e tag "ja'e". You would also need the
terminator "kei" after the abstraction, to separate it from the
following "fe le cilce rokci".
=
> 3.Anything else I could have done better, or more elegantly?
&g= t; How would you have done it?

I would use "fau le nu ..." for "Seiz= ing ..." so that "do" comes after
like the original "you" does.

"= le mi jmive" means "a living/organic thing which is related to me".
To m= e "life" in this context seems to mean an event rather than an
organic t= hing. Maybe "lo mi nu jmive".

Here's my take:

fau le nu kavbu= lo mi nunji'e le do xance kei
do vimri'a ny. sei curve fa'a le
cilce= rokci ne le cimni menli

mu'o pempre mi'e tijlan




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