From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 16 15:29:04 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGh9L-0002GP-8E for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:29:03 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f220.google.com ([209.85.219.220]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MGh9F-0002FP-EP for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:29:03 -0700 Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so539307ewy.34 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:28:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GHQpJ9gm/2x706XBbX9Wx3Ii3j8Ko0O5XAYTxxOeXrw=; b=OjOmsYhcNc3a4voC1+hj++ajxh5C6CwGyD4ZzJGDQtmXzoJxc/OcsMsPmse5Du+ACq eDwLpVDi800dZXw4p7/UrGMWiFxMRMlZ4s7dZNzFILDCjY4QiQ1Ot7ATpB4F5S7j0Vk3 Ot3YnPAHF0ECmOVHsLggmo+etTkOO4l2hPBgM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qnEj79VcdfmIh7bSewmUgEN7OTRHAbWoXT5HEPhXjTxYsixVuChVECwxouCHDz3/yK FxvuGAmd3wmQNqd9rBoa3+oSqqzrFpWSIJ8zJL2ppf+XhvruPYyLq6aVOZS64OyjLhEw 3DOQeXZ9uwaeT7DwDzC328ujJheVZ6S6fq8+4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.28.209 with SMTP id g59mr2957843wea.96.1245191330811; Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:28:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200906161144.44198.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <4de8c3930906160630h4717fbddq12165f0be8329a27@mail.gmail.com> <200906161144.44198.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:28:50 +0300 Message-ID: <71550650906161528j104eb647jabb29748f3da5e1@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: shidgerrrrrkari From: Yoav Nir To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbe59af34df0046c7eb2d3 X-archive-position: 1843 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: yoav.nir@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016e6dbe59af34df0046c7eb2d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting, because I can't pronounce it syllabic. It comes out like shi-djer-ka-ri On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 09:30:24 tijlan wrote: > > In LFB 12, the r-hyphen in "cidjrkari" is claimed to be "a syllable on > > its own, and the word should sound something like shidgerrrrrkari". > > But, according to CLL, "l/m/n/r" can be either syllabic or > > non-syllabic. Isn't LFB's description a bit misleading? > > I can't say "cidjrkari" without making the "r" syllabic. Maybe a Kartuli > could. On the other hand, "paxrmari" (bain-marie, double boiler) I say in > three syllables "paxr,ma,ri", because I pronounce the "xr" simultaneously > (but not "rx"). "spatrxapio" (celery) I pronounce in three > syllables "spatr,xa,pio"; all of my first three languages have a "tr" > blend, > though they're different because the r's are different (I use the Spanish > one, though in Spanish it doesn't occur at the end of a syllable). > > Pierre > > > > --0016e6dbe59af34df0046c7eb2d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting, because I can't pronounce it syllabic.
It comes out like shi-djer-ka-ri

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Pierre Abbat &l= t;phma@phma.optus.nu> w= rote:
On Tuesda= y 16 June 2009 09:30:24 tijlan wrote:
> In LFB 12, the r-hyphen in "cidjrkari" is claimed to be &quo= t;a syllable on
> its own, and the word should sound something like shidgerrrrrkari"= ;.
> But, according to CLL, "l/m/n/r" can be either syllabic or > non-syllabic. Isn't LFB's description a bit misleading?

I can't say "cidjrkari" without making the "= r" syllabic. Maybe a Kartuli
could. On the other hand, "paxrmari" (bain-marie, double boiler) = I say in
three syllables "paxr,ma,ri", because I pronounce the "xr&qu= ot; simultaneously
(but not "rx"). "spatrxapio" (celery) I pronounce in th= ree
syllables "spatr,xa,pio"; all of my first three languages have a = "tr" blend,
though they're different because the r's are different (I use the S= panish
one, though in Spanish it doesn't occur at the end of a syllable).

Pierre




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