From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 21 04:49:01 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MILXf-00070G-I2 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:49:00 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f223.google.com ([209.85.219.223]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MILXa-0006zV-TE for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:48:59 -0700 Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so718823ewy.34 for ; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:48:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=j1SCnTIM9q+QcB24uXFhLg6kZsXBzpqhmw4wZKrHqT4=; b=Wx5c8F1f1AbaTDZy1glLWYmuCfXDKHmjC6NQnTOhLqXpjZl5ZhyYCxUAan2xkWLIOh V74ZAW0KQAoOE4Ebor2S6xVCmm38flZHbMbDvOgtNmCrJ+aiAw8rK4amcAVGKI6/kmGp 9uY73BPzVkK6g5TtFkXwrPMQb8ycZbZ3ohYWA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jINypd6TDfHg4iEmPIL8rEwaZ2dfIJmX/1K/3pqZ9UCm7AE/scI4s5rtUN5agdvO9e MnFoJFS72BHHpBoMjYpDI8Kg8yNfSwvIqpuvb69xDqnyoYN0nHZ5Zr9NW5QvxNMFJxYY 2odhAJfb5nvlnT2i4u4TqZFE3vpJ8r6ME3fFU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.3.65 with SMTP id 43mr1767932weg.149.1245584925212; Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:48:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 13:48:45 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 47ce561a32740ee7 Message-ID: <4de8c3930906210448k23fe719btcbb2bfb170964903@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] left-branching NOI From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 1859 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jbotijlan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners In languages such as Turkish, Japanese, Tamil, and Basque, a noun phrase is formed such that the dependents (the adjective, the numeral, the genitive (-'s) noun and the relative clause) tend to come before the head (the main noun). This is called 'left-branching' or 'head-final'. Here is a Japanese example for "a/the woman who is different from others": hoka to tigau onna (others from different woman) This word order may be expressed in Lojban, with additional grammatical components, as: LE NOI [ke'a] fe lo drata cu frica ku'o ninmu But what if the head is a pronoun/prosumti, as in "you who are different from others"? For left-branching languages, this is to bring the NOI clause before "do". Is that possible? Perhaps: FA NOI [ke'a] fe lo drata cu frica ku'o do ? mu'o mi'e tijlan