From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 22 14:34:31 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIr9r-0006XW-2o for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:34:31 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f211.google.com ([209.85.219.211]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MIr9n-0006Wf-Mi for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:34:30 -0700 Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so299941ewy.34 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:34:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=t1lXn3g9EZfna4bbEWgmuIvShlBn9V6SYf6d+m8Qo+w=; b=llCloFuoMsHL+YWvgsSB4c09QR7xK3f7VKw6d0219MJwS/UvSXKFDW9Hke+kosBqGC LTnRgJhgK89F2HxTB3/Ok58ourbRN6oaKrMv0ElDbdcyO+4RGuE1+UK7gT7lEwNry0FR TiokUxVCVmXSncZplFIp47H4uU199JwCwpdsA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=XU/aLSbCcbOEdBbb2D8MDttF1LA4zyJuRdslpvkoq+Fdxr0ZxSjPRakB5sVicoQlb0 UuDVVHc77WWIe/ijkOWE6fCa+Dc7GngXRe9b/NFdagSnHTCuSN0jHlmuPCTgmRUr9gyb FTBW/K+/MSMOy6YvnfNWvX1loJ0m0RpdVsMPg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.88.7 with SMTP id l7mr2714551ebb.58.1245706460985; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:34:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <12d58c160906221232t2a57fb61s489fad425a0f8c1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d58c160906221232t2a57fb61s489fad425a0f8c1d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:34:20 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Dictionary output From: Johan Pretorius To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c0ee419fafc046cf6a311 X-archive-position: 1867 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pretoriusjf@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0015174c0ee419fafc046cf6a311 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've been using the dictionary server at port 2628 of www.lojban.org to >> look up various words - and I've come across something I don't understand. >> I thought that a given brivla would always have its sumti numbered with the >> same symbol, such as >> >>> x1 comes/goes to destination x2 from origin x3 via route x4 using >>> means/vehicle x5. >>> >> >> However, look at the output I got for li'avro: >> >> ... >>> Definition: v1 is an exit out of c2. >>> ... >>> >> >> What bothers me is that it's apparantly using two different symbols for >> the same selbri... am I missing something obvious here? > > > It's not obvious. {li'avro} is a lujvo formed from {cliva} and {vorme}. So > the definition is saying that the x1 of {li'avro} is the x1 of {vorme}, & > the x2 of {li'avro} is the x2 of {cliva}. > > Thank you, that would seem to make sense. It does lead me to more questions: How is it decided which sumti goes in which position? Is this something that is consciously (arbitrarily) chosen when the lujvo is taken into the dictionary, or are there rules governing it? Also, if I come across a lujvo that I do not know, how can I be sure where one rafsi ends and another begins, apart from knowing the full list of all rafsi on the tips of my fingers (surely there are multiple thousands...)? mu'o mi'e iu'an --0015174c0ee419fafc046cf6a311 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've been using the dictionary server at port 2628 of www.lojban.org to look up various wo= rds - and I've come across something I don't understand.=A0 I thoug= ht that a given brivla would always have its sumti numbered with the same s= ymbol, such as
x1 comes/goes to = destination x2 from origin x3 via route x4 using means/vehicle x5.

However, look at the output I got for li'avro:

...
Definition: v1 is an ex= it out of c2.
...

What bothers me is that it's apparantly using t= wo different symbols for the same selbri... am I missing something obvious = here?

It's not obvious. {li'avro} = is a lujvo formed from {cliva} and {vorme}. So the definition is saying tha= t the x1 of {li'avro} is the x1 of {vorme}, & the x2 of {li'avr= o} is the x2 of {cliva}.


Thank you, that would seem to make se= nse.=A0 It does lead me to more questions:

How is it decided which s= umti goes in which position?=A0 Is this something that is consciously (arbi= trarily) chosen when the lujvo is taken into the dictionary, or are there r= ules governing it?

Also, if I come across a lujvo that I do not know, how can I be sure wh= ere one rafsi ends and another begins, apart from knowing the full list of = all rafsi on the tips of my fingers (surely there are multiple thousands...= )?

mu'o mi'e iu'an
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