From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 23 10:04:08 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MJ9Pk-00011n-BK for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:04:08 -0700 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MJ9Pd-000113-E5 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:04:07 -0700 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090623170354998.SXMX20969@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:03:54 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3132A2EEB for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:03:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lu preti li'u Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:03:50 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <5715b9300906230813u2c4149dbkf718e143387ae799@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5715b9300906230813u2c4149dbkf718e143387ae799@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906231303.51825.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-archive-position: 1878 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tuesday 23 June 2009 11:13:05 Luke Bergen wrote: > So, I have a couple of questions about lu ... li'u that I haven't found in > the CLL yet. > > A: lo gerku goi ko'a cu barda > B: .i la saimon cusku lu ko'a cu xunre li'u > > Now, does the {ko'a} in the quote that B is referring to refer to "lo > gerku" or potentially something else entirely? Or does the presence of a > {ko'a} without a {goi} assignment within that quote make the entire quote > ungrammatical. "ko'a" in the second sentence refers to something in Simon's utterance, three words of which are quoted here. Unless you're playing Simon Says, in which case the second sentence is ignored because it contains "ko'a" instead of "ko". The presence of "ko'a" without "goi" is not ungrammatical; it is merely semantically unclear. The song "le cmalu bloti" uses it; it is up to the listener to figure out that ko'a is the crew as a whole, or the crew minus the boy, and ko'e is the boy. If B had said "la saimon. cusku le sedu'u ko'a xunre", though, "ko'a" would refer to lo gerku. > Furthermore, if we have: > > A: la saimon cusku lu mi barda li'u > > is "mi" saimon or the speaker "A"? "mi" refers to "la saimon". Pierre