From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jun 27 06:38:20 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MKY6m-0007L7-Di for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:38:20 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f211.google.com ([209.85.219.211]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MKY6i-0007JI-21 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:38:20 -0700 Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so3719488ewy.34 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:38:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3FrPhqFsIQsqZKiKV9ESXsRRSWkW3RKc1f4Xl3o6XoE=; b=S0HXck1QNmGeg+Fe1VLARqixplWETotocTQP1qcL2SbUNs4S/0eqlG8Cze66kkF/Ef AnJaKAQaKEHkrQDpYjhjG3+DJsjFbh73jWn1Vi9jr1B9F5owkN9ewCUOgiG5Uz38hL4F 4HmNTsaXF+sPGendHe+fgAO6LXgCqPd4WfQFA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=udhK1OxbClox7BOxZpBFDbUugME+xRCpsb4KSnnmTdBOpmdsqUaw/7/KiA/yA7HaqI tHhMjceyzL/MPARdJBI1Yaf/JddTcgtu2H08kEZ79telQqA0xA84Eyca8T07XqExpbY8 ijXHHSEM4By44wIrvQ0WEOTk47D8XMykvAJ9A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.61.8 with SMTP id j8mr769314eba.58.1246109889511; Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:38:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:38:09 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Dictionary output From: Johan Pretorius To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151749f7ce50c056046d5491d4 X-archive-position: 1885 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pretoriusjf@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --00151749f7ce50c056046d5491d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, thanks all - I learned a lot from all your responses. Unfortunately for all of you, I seem to be at that stage of learning where almost every answer engenders at least one more question! :-) What does clanyvalsi mean? According to the rules given by xorxes, it breaks down into clan-y-valsi, right? Except I can't find the rafsi clan anywhere, the closest I get is cla, from the gismu clani (long). If this is the right one, howcome does it have the extra "n"? I appear to have found an ambiguity: > Word: {*dei*} > Type: cmavo > Gloss Word: {this utterance} > Word: {djedi} > Type: gismu > Gloss Word: {full day} > rafsi: dje *dei* > Am I right in surmising that the rules of morphology will be such that a rafsi can never be confused for a cmavo? ... > neither "gn" nor "nb" is a valid initial pair. "bongnanba" is a word of > fu'ivla form that appears in the Book with no clue what it > means. "bongynanba" and "bognanba", which are two forms of the same word, > mean "bone bread", whatever that is. > Once again, I could not find the rafsi bong - the only rafsi for bongu seems to be [bog bo'u] - am I looking at the wrong sources? (by the way, I'm using this dictionary, downloaded an hour ago - it seems to be the March 2009 edition). And what is this "Book"? It sounds interesting, like I should read it at some stage :-) Oh yes, and one last note - I did not skip the zoi gy. ... gy. form because I was offended at your correction stevon, but merely because it seems silly to quote an almost exclusively English block of text - I think it a better token to keep my signiture in Lojban, until I can speak a bit more. mu'o mi'e iu'an On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:59 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 6/22/2009 18:29:09 Eastern Daylight Time, > jjllambias@gmail.com writes: > > > On 6/22/09, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com > wrote: > > > > The way "zoi" works, though, is that it signals a non-Lojban text coming > > next, but the text itself is surrounded by a syllable not included in > that > > text. So your text above could be given as "zoi gy. [non-Lojban text] > gy." > > "gy" is often chosen to hint that the text is in English ("glico"), but > any > > syllable will do, as long as it's not part of the text itself. > > Not a syllable, it has to be a full Lojban word. It can be a > one-syllable word, like "gy", or a many-syllable word, for example: "" > zoi clanyvalsi ... clanyvalsi". It can't be a syllable that is not a > valid Lojban word, so "zoi gli ... gli" doesn't work, because the > syllable "gli" is not a valid Lojban word. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > ki'e > Thanks for the clarification. > > mu'o mi'e stevon > --00151749f7ce50c056046d5491d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, thanks all - I learned a lot from all your responses.=A0 Unfortunately= for all of you, I seem to be at that stage of learning where almost every = answer engenders at least one more question! :-)

What does clanyvals= i mean? According to the rules given by xorxes, it breaks down into clan-y-= valsi, right?=A0 Except I can't find the rafsi clan anywhere, the close= st I get is cla, from the gismu clani (long).=A0 If this is the right one, = howcome does it have the extra "n"?

I appear to have found an ambiguity:
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Word: {dei}
=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 Type: cmavo
Gloss Word: {this utterance}

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Word: {djedi}
=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 Type: gismu
Gloss Word: {full day}
=A0=A0=A0=A0 rafsi: dje dei
Am I right in surmising that the rules of morphology will be such that a = rafsi can never be confused for a cmavo?

...
neither "gn" nor "nb" is a valid initial pair. "bo= ngnanba" is a word of
fu'ivla form that appears in the Book with no clue what it
means. "bongynanba" and "bognanba", which are two forms= of the same word,
mean "bone bread", whatever that is.
Once again, = I could not find the rafsi bong - the only rafsi for bongu seems to be [bog= bo'u] - am I looking at the wrong sources?=A0 (by the way, I'm usi= ng this dictionary, downloa= ded an hour ago - it seems to be the March 2009 edition).

And what is this "Book"?=A0 It sounds interesting, like I sho= uld read it at some stage :-)

Oh yes, and one last note - I did not = skip the zoi gy. ... gy. form because I was offended at your correction stevon, but merely because it seems silly to quote an almost exclusively E= nglish block of text - I think it a better token to keep my signiture in Lo= jban, until I can speak a bit more.

mu'o mi'e iu'an



O= n Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:59 AM, <MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com> wro= te:
In a message dated 6/22/20= 09 18:29:09 Eastern Daylight Time, jjllambias@gmail.com writes:


On 6/22/09, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com <MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com>= ; wrote:
>
> The way "zoi" works, though, is that it signals a non-Lo= jban text coming
> next, but the text itself is surrounded by a syllable not included= in that
> text. =A0So your text above could be given as "zoi gy. [non-L= ojban text] gy."
> "gy" is often chosen to hint that the text is in English= ("glico"), but any
> syllable will do, as long as it's not part of the text itself.

Not a syllable, it has to be a full Lojban word= . It can be a
one-syllable word, like "gy", or a many-syllable word, for ex= ample: ""
zoi clanyvalsi ... clanyvalsi". It can't be a syllable that is= not a
valid Lojban word, so "zoi gli ... gli" doesn't work, bec= ause the
syllable "gli" is not a valid Lojban word.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


ki'e=20
Thanks for the clarification.

mu'o mi'e stevon

--00151749f7ce50c056046d5491d4--