From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jul 28 10:22:48 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MVqO0-0000Pt-85 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:22:48 -0700 Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com ([209.85.221.176]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MVqNu-0000No-Ic for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:22:47 -0700 Received: by qyk6 with SMTP id 6so272497qyk.28 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:22:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nUP2n6vNfeDdgNlVWd1xeCs/MH/bzIN/8Ii27KRzDAM=; b=InzmL4DD0LMxpXVb50Gd6ygmbl0k34ukrz9pUNrPIvZ/exyFnrPtgrm90GsxCdzUQt 63C4/sLKM3ocul4Pf7i8R06CFZIuZ17FiIe57I6RWEQbKhYtRIKG6UfqGK897e0sjtHH rhkGDNDqiUnCmaMNgU/xEntG8orcOShotfV+g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=c0rv7H5qObv4F/HqK7deOxmgxDgvdwVMctbrpEGq5DcDggK+Baykj3qbafQNEd2V0E i0VHjpnoSWT4elxdurfLhLyc0IG+tRkkH73gJuLXN6UNB9JJgSDdMtiCBj4DhBRKC+XL vQ7zkcLj6y0ki2fgIA1g/ckke2DUtm2f6NksA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.100.16 with SMTP id w16mr4921541vcn.110.1248801755812; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:22:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <925d17560907281017u7b395710odf0b8f154ef2837d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300907280826h74c2d24es5b5fcc32af182b7d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560907281017u7b395710odf0b8f154ef2837d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:22:35 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300907281022w3e2dfd8elf549e2fe9186cf09@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "tavla lo na'e te djuno", talking to the unknown,... From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64715d40cd384046fc75148 X-archive-position: 1962 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016e64715d40cd384046fc75148 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ahhhhhh, perfect. That makes sense. That also explains why "other than" seemed to imply the trueness of "Y" in such a loose way. Because it does s= o indirectly. ki'e - Luke Bergen 2009/7/28 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > hmmm, so does "X other than Y" imply that "Y"? > > "Other than" doesn't really work as a sentence connective, so if "X" > and "Y" are sentences, then "X other than Y" is not meaningful, and it > can't imply Y. > > > When I try to think of solid > > examples it seems like it does, but looking at it in the form "X other > than > > Y" it looks like it really wouldn't. > > Suppose X =3D "snow is white", Y =3D "the sky is blue". "X other than Y" = =3D > "Snow is white other than the sky is blue" is not meaningful, so it > can't imply "the sky is blue". > > "X other than Y" seems to work only if X is some quantified expression > like "some ...", "every ...", "no ...", or a question "what ...", and > Y is one or more instances of the "...": "every dog other than Spot", > "no car other than mine", "some person other than John", etc. > > "What do you do other than being loved" presupposes that "being loved" > is one instance of the things you do, and the question asks for other > instances of things you do. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > --0016e64715d40cd384046fc75148 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ahhhhhh, perfect.=A0 That makes sense.=A0 That also explains why "othe= r than" seemed to imply the trueness of "Y" in such a loose = way.=A0 Because it does so indirectly.=A0

ki'e

- Luke Bergen


2009/7/28 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com&g= t;
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Luke Bergen<lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> hmmm, so does "X other than Y" imply that "Y"?

"Other than" doesn't really work as a sentence connecti= ve, so if "X"
and "Y" are sentences, then "X other than Y" is not mea= ningful, and it
can't imply Y.

> When I try to think of solid
> examples it seems like it does, but looking at it in the form "X = other than
> Y" it looks like it really wouldn't.

Suppose X =3D "snow is white", Y =3D "the sky is blue&= quot;. "X other than Y" =3D
"Snow is white other than the sky is blue" is not meaningful, so = it
can't imply "the sky is blue".

"X other than Y" seems to work only if X is some quantified expre= ssion
like "some ...", "every ...", "no ...", or a = question "what ...", and
Y is one or more instances of the "...": "every dog other th= an Spot",
"no car other than mine", "some person other than John"= , etc.

"What do you do other than being loved" presupposes that "be= ing loved"
is one instance of the things you do, and the question asks for other
instances of things you do.

mu'o mi'e xorxes




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